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Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

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Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the existence of such an EULA includes a clause which was the reason behind Apple's successful court case against a company who was selling pre assembled and configured Hackintosh boxes. (Does anyone remember what the name of the company was? It was like 2007-9 or something) IMHO that EULA's main purpose atm is to tell you that you can only install MacOS on, and I quote, an 'Apple-branded computer'. This led to…

You are correct, the case was Apple v. Psystar : https://casetext.com/case/apple-2 Of particular note in that case is the court ruled that Apple's alleged "monopoly" over the market of "Mac OS-capable computers" was not a valid antitrust market because users knowingly agreed to the EULA restriction limiting installation of Mac OS to Apple computers when they initially purchased Mac OS. I expect this very same issue w…

You need to actually read that case. It was relevant that at the time the plaintiffs failed to show that Apple had a single brand market... Epic did not make the same mistake.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#152

Everybody complains about the walled garden, but damn I love to see things like this.

You do realise Apple could still do this in their app store AND allow 3rd party app stores?

No 3rd party apps stores will not guarantee my one click subscription cancelation Like Apple does, for example

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Android distributions, most Linux distributions, Windows, etc.

Pretty sure most of those would be sending telemetry including installed apps back to the company. And we know for a fact Windows does this.

> Pretty sure...

Now you know that you were wrong. Windows allows you to disable telemetry and certainly doesn't report apps you install to Microsoft if you don't want it to. Same for Android and obviously for desktop and server Linux distros. This is simply not possible on iOS.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#154
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise Apple could still do this in their app store AND allow 3rd party app stores?

No 3rd party apps stores will not guarantee my one click subscription cancelation Like Apple does, for example

The existence of a third party App Store doesn’t prevent you from voting with your feet and sticking with Apples App Store, if that’s a valuable feature to you.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct, the case was Apple v. Psystar : https://casetext.com/case/apple-2 Of particular note in that case is the court ruled that Apple's alleged "monopoly" over the market of "Mac OS-capable computers" was not a valid antitrust market because users knowingly agreed to the EULA restriction limiting installation of Mac OS to Apple computers when they initially purchased Mac OS. I expect this very same issue w…

You need to actually read that case. It was relevant that at the time the plaintiffs failed to show that Apple had a single brand market... Epic did not make the same mistake.

I have read the case in its entirety, see the entire section under B. Market definition: Alleged "Mac OS-capable computers" market.

(It's true that Psystar's attempt to establish "Mac OS" as a single-brand market in section A also failed, but that is not what I am referring to here.)

If you have a more substantive criticism feel free to elaborate in more detail, otherwise making a drive by comment to accuse someone else of not reading just seems hostile and unnecessary.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#156

I do not think Apple should have the power to do such decisions. I do not like tracking at all. But I think this is something which needs to be handled by governments (laws/regulations) not by apple forcing their opinion about what is right onto everyone else by abusing their marked positions. In this case it might be beneficial for the users. In others cases it was not beneficial for the users at all but only for ap…

> But I think this is something which needs to be handled by governments (laws/regulations) not by apple forcing their opinion about what is right onto everyone else by abusing their marked positions. Why should governments force their opinion about what is right onto everyone else? Why not allow freedom in the market so that users can choose what matters most to them? Right now, Apple is serving the market of those…

Freedom in the market got us a massive surveillance apparatus selling data to analytics companies selling data to foreign governments to help them most effectively influence elections and society, widening divides and contributing to massive unrest, and not to the benefit of any of us.

In isolation it doesn’t matter if you want to sell your privacy (and all your friends’ privacy!) for access to a Facebook quiz on what breed of dog you are. As a collective whole on a societal or global scale it makes a difference.

The NSA doesn’t become less scary because it’s “free market” instead of a government agency. If anything the lack of accountability to the public makes it more scary.

This is exactly where government should be involved—when the desirable individual action results in negative outcomes for the group.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iirc, those shrink wrap licenses are of questionable enforceability. The Wikipedia entry on "shrink wrap contract" agrees, but I'm not well-versed on the topic.

Something about this has always confused me... IIUC (at least in US legal system), using software without an appropriate license from the copyright holder is considered a violation of civil copyright law. Suppose that courts deemed shrink-wrap EULAs to be invalid. If the EULA is the agreement that grants end-users permission to use the copyrighted software, would the invalidation mean that users were in violation of…

I think this skips a step. You don't need a copyright license to use software. Copyright only protects making copies, making derivative works, and public performance. This is why shrinkwrap EULAs are a thing. You don't actually need a license, but they claim you agree to one just by opening the shrinkwrap. When you buy a CD or download software, the (presumably) authorized manufacturer or server made the copy that you receive.

The idea that you may not be receiving a copy at all and you merely have access through a license is a legal construction that's not well tested in court and to me seems pretty dubious. How can giving someone a transcription of the bits of the software not be a copy of the software? Anyway this court opinion (final appeal in Step-Saver vs Wyse Tech) deals with the issue and you can read what a court thinks: https://cyber.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/contract/cases/s...

I particularly like this paragraph where they discuss some of the context of the issue even though they decide not to specifically rule on this part.

> When these form licenses were first developed for software, it was, in large part, to avoid the federal copyright law first sale doctrine. Under the first sale doctrine, once the copyright holder has sold a copy of the copyrighted work, the owner of the copy could "sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy" without the copyright holder's consent. See Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus, 210 U.S. 339, 350, 28 S.Ct. 722, 726, 52 L.Ed. 1086 (1908); 17 U.S.C.A. з 109(a) (West 1977). Under this doctrine, one could purchase a copy of a computer program, and then lease it or lend it to another without infringing the copyright on the program. Because of the ease of copying software, software producers were justifiably concerned that companies would spring up that would purchase copies of various programs and then lease those to consumers. Typically, the companies, like a videotape rental store, would purchase a number of copies of each program, and then make them available for over-night rental to consumers. Consumers, instead of purchasing their own copy of the program, would simply rent a copy of the program, and duplicate it. This copying by the individual consumers would presumably infringe the copyright, but usually it would be far too expensive for the copyright holder to identify and sue each individual copier. Thus, software producers wanted to sue the companies that were renting the copies of the program to individual consumers, rather than the individual consumers. The first sale doctrine, though, stood as a substantial barrier to successful suit against these software rental companies, even under a theory of contributory infringement. By characterizing the original transaction between the software producer and the software rental company as a license, rather than a sale, and by making the license personal and non- transferable, software producers hoped to avoid the reach of the first sale doctrine and to establish a basis in state contract law for suing the software rental companies directly. Questions remained, however, as to whether the use of state contract law to avoid the first sale doctrine would be preempted either by the federal copyright statute (statutory preemption) or by the exclusive constitutional grant of authority over copyright issues to the federal government (constitutional preemption). See generally Bonito Boats, Inc. v. Thunder Craft Boats, Inc., 489 U.S. 141, 109 S.Ct. 971, 103 L.Ed.2d 118 (1989); Kewanee Oil Co. v. Bicron Corp., 416 U.S. 470, 94 S.Ct. 1879, 40 L.Ed.2d 315 (1974); Compco Corp. v. Day-Brite Lighting, Inc., 376 U.S. 234, 84 S.Ct. 779, 11 L.Ed.2d 669 (1964); Sears, Roebuck & Co. v. Stiffel Co., 376 U.S. 225, 84 S.Ct. 784, 11 L.Ed.2d 661 (1964). Congress recognized the problem, and, in 1990, amended the first sale doctrine as it applies to computer programs and phonorecords. See Computer Software Rental Amendments Act of 1990, Pub.L. No. 101-650, 104 Stat. 5134 (codified at 17 U.S.C.A. з 109(b) (West Supp.1991)). As amended, the first sale doctrines permits only non-profit libraries and educational institutions to lend or lease copies of software and phonorecords. See 17 U.S.C.A. з 109(b)(1)(A) (West Supp.1991). (Under the amended statute, a purchaser of a copy of a copyrighted computer program may still sell his copy to another without the consent of the copyright holder.) This amendment renders the need to characterize the original transaction as a license largely anachronistic. While these transactions took place in 1986-87, before the Computer Software Rental Amendments were enacted, there was no need to characterize the transactions between Step-Saver and TSL as a license to avoid the first sale doctrine because both Step-Saver and TSL agree that Step-Saver had the right to resell the copies of the Multilink Advanced program.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#158
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple already declared a policy against game-streaming service apps; presumably specifically to avoid this loophole where the ads, purchases, etc. are happening “remotely” and so Apple can’t get a cut of them. Presumably, if anyone tried to build a service for “streaming” non-game apps, that wouldn’t be allowed on the App Store either.

> Apple already declared a policy against game-streaming service apps. I thought they did just the opposite? 4.9: Streaming games Streaming games are permitted so long as they adhere to all guidelines — for example, each game update must be submitted for review, developers must provide appropriate metadata for search, games must use in-app purchase to unlock features or functionality, etc. Of course, there is always…

The only service that can meet all that is their own, so they're pretending to allow something they're actually prohibiting.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure most of those would be sending telemetry including installed apps back to the company. And we know for a fact Windows does this.

> Pretty sure... Now you know that you were wrong. Windows allows you to disable telemetry and certainly doesn't report apps you install to Microsoft if you don't want it to. Same for Android and obviously for desktop and server Linux distros. This is simply not possible on iOS.

You can install apps on iOS without using the store.

And if you are willing to jailbreak then you have the full suite.

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