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I don’t have time for coding challenges

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Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#181

Post by ergocoder »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #63
frequentnapper wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of any software company that would hire an introverted person who can't articulate themselves for 20k a month. This is how micro-service architected fully optimized solutions that solve the wrong problem happen. Do you really think the high value of a developer just comes from being able to pass coding challenges when there's millions of them out there?

That's only 240k probably not for a base salary but total comp sure.

It's a total comp. I'm not sure why we don't talk about TC especially when it's a public company.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#182

Post by ergocoder »

spamizbad wrote: post #59
ergocoder wrote: post #5

Then, don't. I want to move from my 2000 USD a month (this is a good salary already) in a 3rd world country to a FAANG that pays 20k USD per month. I'm willing to go through any challenge because the reward is superb for me. Not to mention, without objective interview questions, an introverted non-native English speaker (who doesn't speak latin-germanic-based language) like me would fail most of these subjective ques…

As someone who had administered dozens of "objective" coding challenges to non-native english speakers... I can guarantee you your language skills will negatively impact your performance. So those tests aren't as objective as you think. It comes up with questions that are as simple as "Create a function that deduplicates an array of integers"

Well, it's more objective than asking a subjective question.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#183

Post by hysan »

golergka wrote: post #172
johnfn wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Them: "We've got a coding challenge for you..." Me: "I've got this repo on Github with millions of downloads and 10k stars. It's at least 20k lines of my own code. Would that be good to demonstrate my coding ability?" Them: "Haha, no, that'd be too much work for us. Please do the test instead." Me: "Fine." Then they rejected me because I used GET instead of POST. Clearly that shows I have no idea how to code. That wa…

> Then they rejected me because I used GET instead of POST. OK, I'm honestly curious here. What was the request, and why did you make such a decision? Do you think it is the right approach in this case, or that it's an insignificant mistake that does not represent a person's understanding of HTTP protocol? I remember hearing about at least one story where using GET instead of POST lead to disastrous consequences, as…

Not the OP, but from my experience teaching web dev, one possible reason is nerves. I’ve seen some of the smartest students make that mistake on an assessment simply because they were under pressure. A simple conversation afterwards shows that they do understand the difference (as expected). In the moment though, sometimes you just have a brain fart.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#184

Post by ergocoder »

tomp wrote: post #139
duutfhhh wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen messy devs who absolutely can't articulate themselves, to the extent that when they tried, everybody else would keep awkward silence, and yet they made 60k/month.

What do those devs do to make 60k/month?

720k TC is hard to attain but possible.

Any decent engineer joining Facebook in 2012 and sticking there until now would earn 60k a month.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#185

Post by shajznnckfke »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #163
shajznnckfke wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t say anything about a voluntary reduction in pay. Any reduction in pay would be a result of market forces in response to increased supply. > Look at construction. Did cheap immigrant labour make rents feel low in many areas? No, market forces drive up prices and owners keep the profit. In areas that aren’t constrained by density limits, homes are actually very cheap. In terms of square footage of home per pop…

Market forces should have already brought in more people into software if they really are that high, bringing down the salaries. What other measure would you suggest? Importing supply from abroad? Whatever it is, it would lead to a reduction in pay, which you suprisingly support - that amounts to walking into your boss' office and asking for a pay reduction. > In areas that aren’t constrained by density limits, homes…

> Whatever it is, it would lead to a reduction in pay, which you suprisingly support - that amounts to walking into your boss' office and asking for a pay reduction.

I just think it’s useful to try to understand the effects of policies not just on me, but on society at large. For example, I might observe that a tax increase hurts me personally but helps others. Are you saying that instead I ought to come up with reasons why the policies that are bad for me are also bad for everyone else, to better lobby for myself, or perhaps so I feel less cognitive dissonance?

> That's the point. The effect of cheap construction labor only affects the rent prices in some areas, in other areas owners pocket the extra profit - while making construction jobs largely untenable except for immigrants coming from poverty. > I suspect something similar could play out in the software field.

So in a region where home supply is constrained by density restrictions, there’s surplus extracted via high rents, and some of that surplus could go to construction workers (and they ought to fight to get a good wage so the developers don’t get all the surplus). Great for the construction workers, but bad for renters. In the analogy, software engineers are the construction workers and everyone else is the renters. Given the high market value of my wages, I will negotiate hard to get my share. At the same time, I can acknowledge that there would be benefits to society if there were more people qualified to write software, even though it would lower my personal wealth.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#186

Post by tomp »

ergocoder wrote: post #184
tomp wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do those devs do to make 60k/month?

720k TC is hard to attain but possible. Any decent engineer joining Facebook in 2012 and sticking there until now would earn 60k a month.

Isn't that because of the stock which just happened to appreciate that much, not because Facebook wants to pay them 60k / month?

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#187

Post by johnfn »

golergka wrote: post #172
johnfn wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Them: "We've got a coding challenge for you..." Me: "I've got this repo on Github with millions of downloads and 10k stars. It's at least 20k lines of my own code. Would that be good to demonstrate my coding ability?" Them: "Haha, no, that'd be too much work for us. Please do the test instead." Me: "Fine." Then they rejected me because I used GET instead of POST. Clearly that shows I have no idea how to code. That wa…

> Then they rejected me because I used GET instead of POST. OK, I'm honestly curious here. What was the request, and why did you make such a decision? Do you think it is the right approach in this case, or that it's an insignificant mistake that does not represent a person's understanding of HTTP protocol? I remember hearing about at least one story where using GET instead of POST lead to disastrous consequences, as…

I was definitely in the wrong about GET/POST. The company I had previously worked for simply didn't really care too much about getting the verbs right, so I didn't really fret about them. And the company I'm currently at (multiple thousands of employees, strong engineering culture if I dare say so myself) just does everything as a POST. So it really is somewhat cultural whether you care about GET/POST or not.

But, IMO, even if you don't know, it's the kind of thing you learn once in code review and then don't worry about again.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#188

Post by johnfn »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #169
johnfn wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Them: "We've got a coding challenge for you..." Me: "I've got this repo on Github with millions of downloads and 10k stars. It's at least 20k lines of my own code. Would that be good to demonstrate my coding ability?" Them: "Haha, no, that'd be too much work for us. Please do the test instead." Me: "Fine." Then they rejected me because I used GET instead of POST. Clearly that shows I have no idea how to code. That wa…

Truly absurd. Followed the link in your profile. You wrote VSCodeVim! 49,674++/14,291--. And because you used the "wrong" HTTP verb. Did they also say you should have used tabs instead of spaces?? Outrageous. By the way, thanks for VCCodeVim!

Hah! Thanks :-)

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#189

Post by fancyfish »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #124

Work sample tests have been proven repeatedly to be the best predictor of future job success.[1] The next best predictor is general mental ability. It's not unreasonable to ask someone to demonstrate their capabilities. Just make it interesting, relevant to the job and most importantly: short. Whatever time work sample testing requires should replace interview time, not add on to it. 2 hours is a reasonable ask. Oh,…

Thanks Robert. We’ve had great success hiring from Facet at our FAANG team. Facet has a strong candidate pool (often other FAANG) and has cut our time spent recruiting by at least half.

Facet’s staff augmentation service is uniquely strong in the industry. I can get temp employees for both long and short term, and scale up or down at any time with just two weeks’ notice.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#190

Post by bradlys »

scubbo wrote: post #161
ergocoder wrote: post #5

Then, don't. I want to move from my 2000 USD a month (this is a good salary already) in a 3rd world country to a FAANG that pays 20k USD per month. I'm willing to go through any challenge because the reward is superb for me. Not to mention, without objective interview questions, an introverted non-native English speaker (who doesn't speak latin-germanic-based language) like me would fail most of these subjective ques…

> 20k USD per month As someone who's been in a FAANG for nearly 8 years and is making 2/5 of that...where the hell did you find that position!? EDIT: oh wait. I was comparing my take-home salary. You're probably describing gross total comp? In which case - yeah, that makes sense. Good luck!

Dude - you're not even making $180k/yr (gross) at FAANG and you've been there for 8 years?

What is your position...? I earn about $9k/month (net) at $170k/yr (gross) in CA as a software engineer. So, I'm already past the 2/5 mark and I'm just at a startup that doesn't even pay well! On top of that - you should be getting stock that translates directly into a good chunk of cash - not just a salary component. (Unless Netflix I guess)

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