The lack of namespaces in the crates registry (combined with allowing squatting) is easily one of the worse aspects of Rust.
The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
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Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#12It's not clear why any of the advantages they tout occur because of the lack of namespaces.
Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#13You really should look to other ecosystems and see what lessons they've learned. In java, packages are normally "namespaced" by the author's reverse domain name, like `org.lwjgl/lwjgl`. Since clojure uses maven as well, the same applies, but clojure tools like leiningen decided to create a shortcut: if the group and artifact name are the same, like `iglu/iglu`, they can be collapsed into one name: `iglu` Well, that j…
>Forks are inevitable; why would you want to discourage them?
The epitome of this mindset I think is "hostile fork" -- the entire notion is nonsensical. The whole point of being FOSS/OSS is the freedom to fork -- by all damn rights, you should fork as you please, and be pleased to fork!
The actual problem is not forking.. its community fragmentation, and more importantly loss of a "source of truth". Of course, maintaining that source of truth is otherwise known as centralization, with all the problems that brings, but there's nothing inherently wrong with forking.. that's just the natural specialization and evolutionary processes at work.
The solution is to make it easier to find those top-tier libraries, and this is orthogonal to forking; mainly handled by blog posts and "official" library listings/recommendations, and things like This Week in Rust.... namespacing or not doesn't really get you anything there.
Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#14The lack of namespaces in the crates registry (combined with allowing squatting) is easily one of the worse aspects of Rust.
Please elaborate, why?
Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#15You really should look to other ecosystems and see what lessons they've learned. In java, packages are normally "namespaced" by the author's reverse domain name, like `org.lwjgl/lwjgl`. Since clojure uses maven as well, the same applies, but clojure tools like leiningen decided to create a shortcut: if the group and artifact name are the same, like `iglu/iglu`, they can be collapsed into one name: `iglu` Well, that j…
We did look and learn; a lot of crates.io was informed by several of us having experience with CPAN, RubyGems, and npm. Both the good and the bad.
And also by the experience of going through GitHub hosting a RubyGems server and all the fallout that happened there.
Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#16We really need a colorful term for the practice of ‘splaining to people how a frustrating part of your code is not only not a bug but you are either doing it (to them) on purpose, or pretending to have done so in order to save face.
Bugsplaining?
Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#17You really should look to other ecosystems and see what lessons they've learned. In java, packages are normally "namespaced" by the author's reverse domain name, like `org.lwjgl/lwjgl`. Since clojure uses maven as well, the same applies, but clojure tools like leiningen decided to create a shortcut: if the group and artifact name are the same, like `iglu/iglu`, they can be collapsed into one name: `iglu` Well, that j…
Agree, Go went a similar route as Java and I think that's good as well.
The new tools.deps in Clojure actually is moving to disallow collapsed names for similar reason and will force iglu/iglu.
Here's a rationale from them:
> The groupId exists to disambiguate library names so our ecosystem is not just a race to grab unqualified names. The naming convention in Maven for groupId is to follow Java’s package naming rules and start with a reversed domain name or a trademark, something you control. Maven itself does not enforce this but the Maven Central repository does all new projects.
> In cases where you have a lib with no domain name or trademark, you can use a third party source of identity (like github) in combination with an id you control on that site, so your lib id would be github-yourname/yourlib. Using a dashed name is preferred over a dotted name as that could imply a library owned by github.
Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#18You really should look to other ecosystems and see what lessons they've learned. In java, packages are normally "namespaced" by the author's reverse domain name, like `org.lwjgl/lwjgl`. Since clojure uses maven as well, the same applies, but clojure tools like leiningen decided to create a shortcut: if the group and artifact name are the same, like `iglu/iglu`, they can be collapsed into one name: `iglu` Well, that j…
We did look and learn; a lot of crates.io was informed by several of us having experience with CPAN, RubyGems, and npm. Both the good and the bad. And also by the experience of going through GitHub hosting a RubyGems server and all the fallout that happened there.
I think what the GP wanted to say was along the lines of "look at _better_ approaches", not just "look at approaches".
Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#19> This is a strike against any namespace system that allows namespace ownership to unexpectedly change. Discontinuous identity has a couple of issues.
Hard agree but this has nothing to do with namespaces. This is equally applicable to names in a flat registry. I don't see the point of bringing this up in this article.
> there are also real benefits. [...] discourages forks
What. How? Why?
I guess there's possibly some valid argument for disliking forks (though it's certainly not put forward in this article), but discouraging them via package registry structure is... delusional.
Forks are a reality of software and they neither happen as a result of registry structures, nor can the be discouraged by their designs. They happen for entirely external, human reasons, and a well-designed registry structure (i.e. a non-flat one) will be set up to be resilient to forking.
Re: The lack of namespaces on crates.io is a feature
#20I remember when this came up because of the following user: https://crates.io/users/swmon
Also https://crates.io/users/tony-iqlusion That person is definitely not helping the perception that a significant fraction of the cryptofinance community is scammers, and that their presence has a negative effect on the community.
Oh wow ... that guy ... is also doing this?
That certainly puts his participation in the namespacing debates into a new light.