Is Sugar Toxic? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#101

Post by 3am » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:35 PM UTC

skunkworks wrote: post #74

3am wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In response, you say that that this is not irresponsible journalism because doing nothing in a crisis is irresponsible, even if doing something involves a little bit of misdirection." Did I say that?

At some point -- and I'm not saying you've reached that point -- if enough people misread you, maybe you need to communicate more clearly. (Not trying to be rude.) Anyway, here are some fun refutations of Mr. Taubes body of dietary advice: http://reason.com/archives/2003/03/01/big-fat-fake http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-content/uploads/2008/0... I guess the big issue I have with his advice is that obesity is r…

Fair point, and I didn't consider this rude at all. I am not offended by being misread (it happens) or by rudeness (within reason, if the content is good). The intersection, less so. Thanks for the links. All for reducing caloric intake, but I think a sibling post makes a good point about that. I have already taken more than my fair share of this thread, I'll let the rest to better minds than mine.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#102

Post by btilly » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:36 PM UTC

joske2 wrote: post #47

JonnieCache wrote: post #10

Toxicity as a concept is entirely defined by dose. Bleach is not toxic if you take a small enough dose. Conversely, water is toxic if you drink too much of it. Unfortunately toxic, like so many other of our perfectly good scientific words, has been hijacked by quacks trying to deprive the credulous of their money.

The dose is discussed in the article. The hypothesis is that 90 pounds of added sugars per person per year is toxic (current levels of consumption). 40 pounds per person per year is supposed to be ok.

It does not say that 40 pounds per year is OK. It says that there is no evidence that 40 pounds per year is not OK.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#103

Post by timedoctor » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:36 PM UTC

This validates my diet: Zero added sugar (essentially means no processed foods) Zero deep fried food

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#104

Post by 100k » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:45 PM UTC

bgentry wrote: post #32

For those who haven't watched the video lecture referenced early in the article, I highly recommend checking it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM Lustig does a fantastic job explaining the cellular processes at work, which appealed to my engineering side. I'm not usually passionate about biochemistry and this lecture is definitely long, but if you make it through the first 15 minutes you will be hooked.

This is one of those "life changing" videos.

I'm not sure about the whole paleo diet thing, but I'm pretty sure humans didn't evolve to eat large quantities of sugar.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#105

Post by rmobin » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:55 PM UTC

trustfundbaby wrote: post #52

I'm actually curious about what this says about consuming fruits in large amounts ... since they are pretty much all fructose. Some folks I know (I did for a bit) consume fruits with gusto, erroneously thinking they don't have effects close to what refined sugars have on the body

There is an argument to be made that modern fruits have been bred to be sweeter, which is worth examining. Also, it is well known in the "paleo" community that fruit should be avoided when trying to get lean (~10-11% body fat for men) - and this is related to fructose and/or its affect on blood sugar. Last point is a type 1 diabetic, now doctor, eats no fruit and this was a very important step for him to maintain healthy blood sugars and get healthy - Dr. Richard Bernstein (he runs a diabetes clinic in NY). I believe that modern fruit eaten is large quantities isn't so benign.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#106

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:55 PM UTC

trustfundbaby wrote: post #52

I'm actually curious about what this says about consuming fruits in large amounts ... since they are pretty much all fructose. Some folks I know (I did for a bit) consume fruits with gusto, erroneously thinking they don't have effects close to what refined sugars have on the body

[deleted]

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#107

Post by yummyfajitas » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:55 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #94

yummyfajitas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quacks selling books certainly want to take money from people wishing they could be thinner (but who are unwilling to eat less and exercise more). (Another variant is selling books telling you "it's not your fault you are fat." I haven't read it, but the impression I get from people who have is that Gary Taubes book falls into this category.)

It's time you give in and read the primary materials. As someone who has read both the major Taubes books, I am yet to see you successfully characterize his arguments. Please note I did not say "successfully attack his arguments", because that is something else; characterizing them correctly is a necessary first step. You think you understand them, but when you try to explain them to someone else you are wrong about…

I don't claim to know much about Taubes, nor did I claim to characterize his arguments. Perhaps you noticed that I explicitly disclaimed any direct knowledge of his book?

My only direct knowledge of him is reading one of his blog posts and finding it very misleading, attempting to make a reducto ad absurdum against the standard calories in/calories out theory while ignoring about 90% of the calories in. Not exactly a compelling reason to shell out $11 and hours of my time on his book.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#108

Post by jberryman » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:57 PM UTC

pygy_ wrote: post #42

JonnieCache wrote: post #10

Toxicity as a concept is entirely defined by dose. Bleach is not toxic if you take a small enough dose. Conversely, water is toxic if you drink too much of it. Unfortunately toxic, like so many other of our perfectly good scientific words, has been hijacked by quacks trying to deprive the credulous of their money.

Who wants to extort money from whom?.. ...beside the food industry, which thrives by having people overeat?

I'm guessing the gp was referring to the many "detox" programs, which claim to remove unnamed "toxins" from the body through fasting, eating raw food, lots of pooping, etc.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#109

Post by msluyter » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 9:59 PM UTC

matthennigan wrote: post #93

fhars wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But all the evidence presented in the article seems to point in the direction that glucose is mostly harmless (see the discussion of the Japanese diet that contained mostly rice). So Davis' recommanedation cannot be justified along these lines.

Davis absolutely hates wheat, on very justifiable grounds. And he strongly recommends anyone with heart problems get off it immediately. But I dont think he has anything against rice.

Actually, if you read his blog, you'll find lots of articles that, at least indirectly, indict rice (and basically anything that spikes your blood sugar, which includes all grains). For example:

http://www.heartscanblog.org/2010/07/what-increases-blood-su...

Generally, he advocates close postprandial monitoring of blood sugar as a sort of proxy for triglicerides/ldl and often notes that some people may have higher tolerances for certain foods than others. If rice doesn't raise your postprandial blood sugar much, then I'd imagine he'd be ok with it.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#110

Post by smhelp » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 10:14 PM UTC

yread wrote: post #38

pak wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic and pointing out that anything is "toxic" in high quantities. In case you aren't, or for people that did not catch it, 29g/kg is about 2.4kg of sugar for the average 80kg male, which comes out to about 12.5 cups or 3 liters. It should be obvious to most people that filling a two-liter bottle with pure granulated sugar and consuming it in one sitting would have severe health cons…

I was being sarcastic. But I also wanted to post to point to the fact that scientists believe that 50% of the people who ate this much sugar would in fact survive !

I was severely depressed a month or two ago, and I went ahead and bought two 2 pound chocolate rich cakes in succession and ate them over a period of 24 hours. Though it didn't kill me, but it was definitely not too upsetting. I still have the urge to just eat huge quantities of sugar, and I am not sure how to control it, but yea it definitely did not kill me or make me sick.

I am otherwise an extremely fit individual (can run 5k in 16 minutes)