Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare' • Hacker News Board

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#211

Post by badwolf » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #167

crazygringo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but all the glass that gets used for reuse is for liquids , which are also all heavy to begin with. Do you have examples of successful packaging reuse for solid dry food such as Pringles? Or cereal? Or sugar? Or chocolate? (And that's before even getting into packaging of meat, fish, etc.)

I bring mason jars and reusable produce bags to the store to buy coffee, rice, green beans and other solids. The store even ran a promotion to give away the produce bags, so a lot of people in the neighborhood have them. I agree, this might not work too well for meat, but as they say, "perfect is the enemy of good enough".

For meat, butcher paper is a thing that exists.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#212

Post by leetcrew » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

II2II wrote: post #170

remote_phone wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let the costs increase then. All food containers must be recyclable or compostable. This should be a rule across the globe. We should also ban single-use plastic. If costs need to go up, then let them go up. Consumers need to understand the costs of their consumption and we can’t destroy our planet so that corporations can be more profitable.

> We should also ban single-use plastic. If costs need to go up, then let them go up. Consumers need to understand the costs of their consumption and we can’t destroy our planet so that corporations can be more profitable. The hitch is affordability for people with lower incomes. While it is easy to be critical about single serving beverages and over packages potato chips, the vast majority of goods found in most gro…

> While it is easy to be critical about single serving beverages and over packages potato chips, the vast majority of goods found in most grocery stores are packaged.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we need to do away with packaged foods entirely. the fundamental relationship between surface area and volume means we can improve things substantially just by using bigger containers. a plastic quart-sized container of apple sauce still uses a lot less plastic than two four packs of single-serving cups. once you're buying and selling food in larger containers, the material cost of the container contributes less to the total cost of the product, leaving some headroom to use more expensive materials.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#213

Post by emerongi » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

strogonoff wrote: post #150

Ensorceled wrote: post #16

We need to focus on the second R, reuse. I have mason jars that my grandmother and then my mother used for pickling. The only waste is the rubber ring which needs to be replaced occasionally and THAT could be recycled. Many of these bottles have been used for 80+ years now. I have a few Ball jars which my GREAT grandmother used 100+ years ago. Beer bottles in Canada are reused dozens of times and are recyclable (brow…

On board with mandating recycling and encouraging use of infinitely recyclable materials in container manufacturing. A couple nits to pick, though. – You have to be specific when advocating for reuse. Some like to keep using—for long periods of time—bottles made from cheap thin disposable plastic. That plastic, when repeatedly emptied, may quickly accumulate tiny cracks and leech chemicals, which in case of P(V)C may…

Thanks for the advice.

I use the same plastic bottle for months when going to the gym. Should I stop doing this?

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#214

Post by michaelt » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #208

dojitza1 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. But an average human won't. A perceived cost increase or to put it more generally a perceived life standard decrease incurs a strong emotion in humans. Let earth and our future be be damned, I want more dopamine in my brain as soon as possible. This is the reason why most people live in debt, instead of an obviously optimal alternative of saving up for your purchases. We evolved in an unstable world, where f…

It doesn't matter if people like it or not, you just make it so companies or people have to pay for the negative externalities through taxes or regulation and the problem is solved. The market will naturally rebalance and innovate under the new constraints. If only we had responsible, effective government with the balls to do what has to be done to protect the future. This business of short term thinking and to hell…

> It doesn't matter if people like it or not,

Does if you want it done by elected politicians in a properly functioning democracy.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#215

Post by KptMarchewa » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

II2II wrote: post #170

remote_phone wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let the costs increase then. All food containers must be recyclable or compostable. This should be a rule across the globe. We should also ban single-use plastic. If costs need to go up, then let them go up. Consumers need to understand the costs of their consumption and we can’t destroy our planet so that corporations can be more profitable.

> We should also ban single-use plastic. If costs need to go up, then let them go up. Consumers need to understand the costs of their consumption and we can’t destroy our planet so that corporations can be more profitable. The hitch is affordability for people with lower incomes. While it is easy to be critical about single serving beverages and over packages potato chips, the vast majority of goods found in most gro…

It's easily solvable for liquids, the only issue is upfront cost.

https://interestingengineering.com/drug-store-in-czechia-bri...

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#216

Post by masklinn » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #33

masklinn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to focus on the second R, reuse. That means you need to end both single-use containers and selling stuff in containers entirely . There’s only do much of one type of reusable container you even can have a use for, and that’s assuming you do even have a use for them in the first place: I don’t make jam at home, I buy it, I don’t have a use for a new jam jar a month, and every jam-making friend has more jars…

Why couldn't jam manufacturers just use returnable bottles? The beer companies in Ontario do, soda bottles are returnable and reusable in many places.

I expect most of them are large companies unconcerned with that in the first place (so it'd have to be mandated), but more importantly jam containers tend to have pretty thin walls and somewhat odd shapes.

They're solid enough when full and sealed but I expect they're much weaker when empty, so I don't know that the cost/benefit would break even unless the cost of the alternative was way increased.

> The beer companies in Ontario do, soda bottles are returnable and reusable in many places.

Reusing beer bottles is much more traditional so I expect they're designed for this specifically, and there's usually either an incentive scheme to encourage or outright legislation to mandate container deposits (germany even has legislation for single-use container deposits).

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#217

Post by Unai » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

treis wrote: post #179

kbos87 wrote: post #4

If you want to have your eyes opened about just how little of the material you probably think you are recycling actually gets recycled, watch the recent Frontline episode called “Plastic Wars”. The sad truth is that while recycling is worthwhile, it’s also a woefully insufficient solution that has been held up by the petroleum industry as a cure all to prevent a backlash against plastic. Even products that are labele…

>while recycling is worthwhile, I'm not sure it's that worthwhile for most things. Glass is made of sand, which we have plenty of. Cardboard is trees which are renewable. Plastic is petroleum and it's probably better that we use it and bury it then burn it. Metal is rarer and some of that is worthwhile to recycle but again not like we're running out of iron ore. We also have plenty of land to bury stuff in. The thing…

It's a shame your comment has basically no replies, I'd like to read a counterpoint.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#218

Post by andrewxdiamond » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

Zippogriff wrote: post #147

srtjstjsj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many cities subsidize waste by charging money for trash hauling but not for putting trash in the recycling bin. Seattle even introduced a punitive fine for NOT contaminating the recycling stream!

Regular trash costs extra money after a couple bags, here, so we're encouraged to put anything in recycling that can go there. Our city has us put recycling out at the curb, unbagged and uncovered, in plastic bins. Meanwhile, wind exists. It's more of a littering program than a recycling program, really.

You can request an extra recycling bin free of charge in Seattle. I believe you can even do it via the app

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#219

Post by R0b0t1 » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

alltakendamned wrote: post #168

R0b0t1 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, if the jars last over a century you don't sell many jars.

That’s only a problem for very very few people aka the shareholders. Everyone else wins. It’s the standard modus operandi for most companies by now. Internalized profits, externalized costs. And there are very few products for which full lifecycle costs are included in the price.

It's something that needs to be addressed. If the ROI for an action is very low nobody is going to investigate doing that action.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#220

Post by centimeter » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #16

We need to focus on the second R, reuse. I have mason jars that my grandmother and then my mother used for pickling. The only waste is the rubber ring which needs to be replaced occasionally and THAT could be recycled. Many of these bottles have been used for 80+ years now. I have a few Ball jars which my GREAT grandmother used 100+ years ago. Beer bottles in Canada are reused dozens of times and are recyclable (brow…

> We need to just force manufacturers to bear the costs of recycling their products 100%: everybody would switch to reusable

Proclamations like this are strong evidence of economic illiteracy. Forcing everything to be recyclable isn’t optimal for society or for the environment.