Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems silly to me. Commodification of the platform would be massively beneficial for Epic. At the very least I'd be neutral towards it and just allow Valve to do all the expensive heavy lifting, then work on my own Linux compatibility and support in the background.
If anyone thinks for one second that this guy actually cares about any of this (beyond the extra 30% he could pull) I have a bridge to sell you.
Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
251–260 of 456 posts
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
The competition is in the marketplace. I'm not sure what value there is in having an Epic store, an Apple store, a Google store, a Netflix store, a Microsoft Store... Having choice isn't always better. I think the Apple iOS store is a very clear example where choice leads to negative experience for users. As I've mentioned before, Apple collectively bargains on behalf of users against developers. They enforce (albeit…
This is the same kind of response that used to be used when Google was discussed. "Google is clearly making the right choice for me. Their motto is literally 'don't be evil'". And in some respects it's true - A benevolent dictatorship is undeniably a great form of governance. The problem (and this is a problem) is that benevolent dictatorships never, Never, NEVER stay benevolent. At some point the guiding principles…
I just don't find this compelling and don't really care about it. There are lots of products to choose from, you can build your own stuff, buy a generic phone and load whatever you want on it, etc.
> The problem (and this is a problem) is that benevolent dictatorships never, Never, NEVER stay benevolent.
Then new products will arise when this happens.
> Basically - I find this argument extremely short-sighted. It's trading any sense of long term thinking for the immediate convenience of letting someone else do the work for you in the short term. I have very, very little respect for this argument.
We routinely delegate trust in society to experts and other accountable entities. It's like saying we shouldn't have an FDA and everybody should just make sure they aren't ingesting something that will kill them.
Also, can you clearly articulate what exactly I'm losing here with a single App Store? So far I just see more cons than pros.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
That comparison would be calling every other phone on the market not just inferior, but entirely different technology. Seeing as they all can access the same networks and be comprised of varying hardware and use varying operating systems I just don’t think that’s true. It’s like Apple being the sole supplier of a specific type of unleaded fuel. And people like me choosing that fuel because it might be more expensive…
It’s more like Apple were effectively stopping you from using the fuel in cars they don’t approve of.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
> all the apps that I need Correction: all the apps that Apple thinks you need, regardless of whether or not it aligns with what you need or want.
Please give me examples of apps I’m missing out on as an average consumer because I’m all for missing out on malwares
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey there, I work in the Linux gaming space. Epic and Tim Sweeney are not hostile towards Linux. The worst you can say is they're indifferent (and can you blame them, given the size of that market?), but even that is not true. Epic's game engine supports Linux. Could they do more to support Linux gaming? Sure. But that's not the same as being "incredibly hostile."
No Epic Store in Linux. Repeatedly stated they've no plans to. Meanwhile, Steam is doubling down with Proton. Since Proton, I don't have a Windows partition around anymore, it just works for an enormous number of titles.
Just because they don't want to build for and support a relatively tiny platform does not mean that they're hostile toward that platform. They support it in other ways via their game engine. Steam, on the other hand, has a vested interest in supporting Linux due to SteamOS, which they hope to pursue again in the future.
Just because Valve has a lot of goodwill in supporting Linux, even though Proton hasn't really affected Linux's market share in gaming, does not mean everyone else is actively hostile toward it.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please give me examples of apps I’m missing out on as an average consumer because I’m all for missing out on malwares
Any example that will be provided the fanboys will explain why they themselves don't need that application. The big example are web browsers (but you all are happy with the new IE) , GPL apps and some very popular game called Fortnite you might have hear of. I am wondering if you can refund your iPhone because a month ago you could play this game and now it will be blocked.
With 20% global market share, plenty of countries don't care about Safari support.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
> all the apps that I need Correction: all the apps that Apple thinks you need, regardless of whether or not it aligns with what you need or want.
Please give me examples of apps I’m missing out on as an average consumer because I’m all for missing out on malwares
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and they cost game devs money in lost sales from me. I don't think the exclusives are good for users, but from a developer perspective this is an oversimplification. Epic is essentially pre-funding games. If you're an indie dev who's been working on a game for 3-5 years, literally everything you have is riding on that release going well. It's incredibly stressful. So suddenly this billionaire shows up and says, "no…
I know the dev gets a good deal out of it (probably more money than all the lost sales). It's still bad for the consumer (except if the title would never get released otherwise). If a developer chooses to only publish on steam, that's not really the platforms fault, is it? I dislike that some games use steam login/servers as well, but there is a trade-off: those steam servers will probably exist 10 years from now, wh…
It's complicated. Using Steam's infrastructure for multiplayer and mod support means that the game will only work with Steam. Valve isn't stupid, the reason they offer those services is to encourage games to be Steam exclusives. It's not an accident that Valve has no terms or options for developers releasing on other platforms to tie into those same servers.
Now, is it nice for developers that they don't have to pay for servers and that they get an easy API to integrate with them? Sure. Is it good for the consumer? No, not in any long-term way that wouldn't also apply to Epic funding games.
I will make the argument that what Epic is doing is better for the consumer than what Valve is doing. Epic exclusives are timed, eventually games leave the platform. Valve's infrastructure changes the way a game is built, it has to be re-engineered to work anywhere else. If a game is tied into those frameworks, it's very unlikely that it will ever leave Steam.
For the most part, developers that use Steam's features end up releasing gimped versions of their game elsewhere -- you buy a game on GoG and it's literally just missing features. This is especially frustrating for mods, you get cut off from the entire community. I think fragmenting the PC market so that different versions of the same game exist on different storefronts with no indication of the "proper" place to buy a game is way more toxic and harmful to the end consumer than forcing them to wait 6-12 months to play a new release.
I agree open sourcing that infrastructure would go a huge way towards alleviating the problem. If GoG could offer their own multiplayer servers that were compatible with Steam games, that would be huge. Even better if players could set up their own compatible servers for GoG games, that would be amazing. But there's very little incentive for Valve to do that. They benefit tremendously from games hard-coding those servers and making them impossible to change.
And that's not to say that what Epic is doing is good. I generally think that we should be discouraging exclusives, or at least making it easier for users to move their games between storefronts without installing new clients. Buying games from the Epic store wouldn't really be a problem if they were DRM free and you could download them from a web client, at that point I wouldn't care about exclusives at all.
My point is more that I don't think that what Epic is doing is bad in a way that makes them unsuited to bring this case, or that the way they're disrupting the status quo on PC is uniquely evil or something. Pretty much any dev you talk to will be happy to see Valve getting more competition. We don't want Valve to be taking 30% of our game revenue.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because on the PC...there is no price competition? If that's even true, it's a moot point then since there's no price competition when there's only one app store too.
So it's simply worse, since the friction has gone up appreciably, to no benefit of the customer.
Having a choice of who to do business with is always good for the customer.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Apple and Google
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not that I can tell. He is also completely right.
His arguments seems to be completely rhetorical and absolutist. "If it's in principle possible to offer an alternative regardless of any cost, even if it's not practical, then there is no monopoly."
A monopoly means you have total control over a market and thus control the price of the market. Monopoly rents are where you can charge higher prices but people won’t go to the competition. Neither is true: app devs can charge whatever they want for their apps. The redirections are about stopping underselling across stores which is a common retail practice when they carry your wares.
This is a fight about retail markup. Epic knows they don’t have a strong legal case which is why they have the PR campaign. The only recourse will be to convince people to change the laws, because this case doesn’t neatly fit in the traditional antitrust model.