IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial • Hacker News Board

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#51

Post by kgonza » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

tinus_hn wrote: post #19

implements wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is, he damaged himself by choosing to spend nearly a decade in isolation. We haven’t done anything to him other than expect him to submit to due process as a citizen like any other. That he has driven himself half-mad is indeed tragic, but it’s not societies fault, nor is it sufficient to place him outside the law.

There is no way he would have gotten due process, which is why he went in in the first place.

Can you give an example of someone in his position who didn't receive due process?

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#52

Post by johnnyfaehell » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:42 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #46

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #26

> According to his lawyers, Mr Assange was handcuffed 11 times; stripped naked twice and searched; his case files confiscated after the first day of the hearing; and had his request to sit with his lawyers during the trial, rather than in a dock surrounded by bulletproof glass, denied. Stripped naked and search is standard custody practice. Criminals hide things and are known to smuggle things in and out of court to…

Seems like nobody should really be treated that way though, so the fact he's being treated in accordance with others to me is more of an indictment of the system than his specific treatment. People seem to have lost sight of the fact that (a) people are innocent until proven guilty in general and (b) criminals are people too, and all people deserve humane treatment. After all, if you can't treat criminals humanely wh…

> Seems like nobody should really be treated that way though, so the fact he's being treated in accordance with others to me is more of an indictment of the system than his specific treatment.

Why shouldn't people be stripped searched on the way in and out of prison? How are the prisons meant to ensure the safety of the prisoners? Remember prisoners can and do smuggle weapons and deadly drugs into prisons. One of the best ways of keeping prisons safe is to search prisoners properly upon entry to the prison.

Why shouldn't people who have been proven not trustworthy be held in a dock? Remember, he skipped bail.

Why shouldn't someone who seems to be at danger be protected with bulletproof glass?

> people are innocent until proven guilty in general

He has already been proven guilty of a crime. He is a criminal.

> criminals are people too, and all people deserve humane treatment. After all, if you can't treat criminals humanely who are you to condemn them for treating others inhumanely? By all means, remove from society, reform, re-educate, etc, but no reason to treat criminals as anything other than your siblings, parents, etc who did something wrong and need some course correction.

I personally have been in the UK prison system and have experienced the strip searches and the court handling. Honestly, I never heard a prisoner once complain about strip searches, we understood why they were there. The guards weren't insenstive or treated us inhumanely. We were just told to take our clothes off while they inspected our clothes. And sitting in a dock is not inhumane.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#53

Post by black_puppydog » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

kgonza wrote: post #51

tinus_hn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way he would have gotten due process, which is why he went in in the first place.

Can you give an example of someone in his position who didn't receive due process?

Yes, Julian Assange for one. Look him up, you seem to be unfamiliar with his case. /s

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#54

Post by dogma1138 » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #47

dogma1138 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continental Europe during the post world period until the late 80’s had terrorist bombings, political assassination, dictatorships and plenty of other crap going around, I’m really not sure what level of understanding people have of history these days. 70 years ago was just after Europe decided to murder millions of Jews, Roma, Gays and a bunch of other groups.

> I’m really not sure what level of understanding people have of history these days. People go by what they gathered from movies and what their older relatives talk about.

Yeah I don’t know, Portugal was a dictatorship until the coup in 1974 which ended the Estado Novo regime and the colonial wars Portugal was waging in Africa, ffs you had European powers conducting outright massacres in Africa in the 70’s still.

And somehow today its feels that everyone thinking that the European Union was formed on Tuesday following the pyramids and its been the bastion of human rights and civilization since.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#55

Post by shadowprofile77 » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 5:08 AM UTC

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #22

mcherm wrote: post #8

I can't think of a special reason why the UK would have it in for Julian Assange. I presume they are doing this in order to cow towel to their ally the United States. Do they not realize that the United States is likely to undergo a regime change at the beginning of next year? Do they think the new regime in the US will feel the same way about Julian Assange and will put the same kind of pressure on the UK that the T…

I see nothing at all about the potential new Democrat government in the U.S that indicates it would in the least bit reduce its stupid, petty, vengeful prosecution efforts against Assange. A fundamental loyalty to protecting the superiority of the U.S state and its military power/secrets is a firm tenet of both major parties. Obama never budged on Assange, or Snowden and what would make the even less flexible-minded…

I don't see why my older comment would be downvoted. Obama initiated the legal process against Assange and Biden never once stated a lack of support for it. What in the world would make any of you think he'd somehow change that tendency if he won? Trump, for all his mendacity and nonsense, has at least floated the idea forward here and there and has just enough vindictive weirdness to plausibly decide to do such a thing.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#56

Post by arcticbull » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 11:01 AM UTC

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #52

arcticbull wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like nobody should really be treated that way though, so the fact he's being treated in accordance with others to me is more of an indictment of the system than his specific treatment. People seem to have lost sight of the fact that (a) people are innocent until proven guilty in general and (b) criminals are people too, and all people deserve humane treatment. After all, if you can't treat criminals humanely wh…

> Seems like nobody should really be treated that way though, so the fact he's being treated in accordance with others to me is more of an indictment of the system than his specific treatment. Why shouldn't people be stripped searched on the way in and out of prison? How are the prisons meant to ensure the safety of the prisoners? Remember prisoners can and do smuggle weapons and deadly drugs into prisons. One of the…

> Why shouldn't people who have been proven not trustworthy be held in a dock? Remember, he skipped bail. Why shouldn't someone who seems to be at danger be protected with bulletproof glass?

Sorry, do you expect him to run out of court and not be stopped by the bailiffs? Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of bulletproof glass after already being searched for weapons inside and out?

> He has already been proven guilty of a crime. He is a criminal.

Not this crime? Either way it applies to people who both have and have not been convicted yes?

> Honestly, I never heard a prisoner once complain about strip searches, we understood why they were there.

Oh, well. In that case. I'm sure if they did complain their complains would be given the utmost priority.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#57

Post by johnnyfaehell » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 12:31 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #56

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like nobody should really be treated that way though, so the fact he's being treated in accordance with others to me is more of an indictment of the system than his specific treatment. Why shouldn't people be stripped searched on the way in and out of prison? How are the prisons meant to ensure the safety of the prisoners? Remember prisoners can and do smuggle weapons and deadly drugs into prisons. One of the…

> Why shouldn't people who have been proven not trustworthy be held in a dock? Remember, he skipped bail. Why shouldn't someone who seems to be at danger be protected with bulletproof glass? Sorry, do you expect him to run out of court and not be stopped by the bailiffs? Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of bulletproof glass after already being searched for weapons inside and out? > He has alrea…

> Sorry, do you expect him to run out of court and not be stopped by the bailiffs? Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of bulletproof glass after already being searched for weapons inside and out?

Well, the baliffs wouldn't be in position to catch him since they're in the dock. Because that's where the prisoner is. And prisoners do bolt out of courts, they get ane extra sentence but it does happen.

> Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of bulletproof glass after already being searched for weapons inside and out?

I said AT danger, not BE A danger. So the bulletproof glass is there to protect HIM.

> Oh, well. In that case. I'm sure if they did complain their complains would be given the utmost priority.

You know people complain to each other, right? They bitch about this and that. Like they would complain about the tea being crap, etc. And complaints were treated fairly, that's why if you complained you got shit from the guards, your mail would take 2 days longer, your requests for a form would take longer, etc.

You seem to be completely disconnected from reality.

* This is a guy who skipped bail and avoided arrest for years. And you're againist him sitting in a dock.

* A guy who realistically, people want to kill and you're againist him being behind bulletproof glass.

* You want people to be dealt with humanely but againist basic things required to keep them safe. All the things you're againist, the only countries that don't have them are corrupt, dangerous places.

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#58

Post by arcticbull » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #57

arcticbull wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why shouldn't people who have been proven not trustworthy be held in a dock? Remember, he skipped bail. Why shouldn't someone who seems to be at danger be protected with bulletproof glass? Sorry, do you expect him to run out of court and not be stopped by the bailiffs? Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of bulletproof glass after already being searched for weapons inside and out? > He has alrea…

> Sorry, do you expect him to run out of court and not be stopped by the bailiffs? Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of bulletproof glass after already being searched for weapons inside and out? Well, the baliffs wouldn't be in position to catch him since they're in the dock. Because that's where the prisoner is. And prisoners do bolt out of courts, they get ane extra sentence but it does happen…

Thanks for sharing your perspective!

Re: IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial

#59

Post by Chris2048 » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 4:09 PM UTC

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #26

> According to his lawyers, Mr Assange was handcuffed 11 times; stripped naked twice and searched; his case files confiscated after the first day of the hearing; and had his request to sit with his lawyers during the trial, rather than in a dock surrounded by bulletproof glass, denied. Stripped naked and search is standard custody practice. Criminals hide things and are known to smuggle things in and out of court to…

> He is able to confer with his lawyers when he needs to from the dock

Is he? Also it was suggested he hadn't received relevant papers in prison, and now isn't allowed them in court either.

His ability to be personally informed are greatly reduced as a result of all of this, which seems beyond "petty", and rather a purposeful attempt to minimise his ability to be involved with the defence.