Live data from Hacker News

Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

bbc.co.uk

51–60 of 401 posts

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#51
post #21

We need to focus on the second R, reuse. I have mason jars that my grandmother and then my mother used for pickling. The only waste is the rubber ring which needs to be replaced occasionally and THAT could be recycled. Many of these bottles have been used for 80+ years now. I have a few Ball jars which my GREAT grandmother used 100+ years ago. Beer bottles in Canada are reused dozens of times and are recyclable (brow…

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, in that order. A lot of things don't need so much packaging in the first place.

Reduce, Reuse, Refurbish, Recycle, Composting, Energy from waste, Incineration, Landfill - that was the basics of the Waste Hierarchy when I worked on the Waste Strategy for England back in the late 1990s. I don't know if the order has shifted much over the past couple of decades.

The EU Packaging Directive seems to be getting more robust - I remember the first Directive was a bit weak and too open to national interpretation so it's good to see they seem to have introduced hard recycling targets and put a lot more emphasis on the need for producer responsibility schemes for packaging - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=15958382...

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#52
post #21

We need to focus on the second R, reuse. I have mason jars that my grandmother and then my mother used for pickling. The only waste is the rubber ring which needs to be replaced occasionally and THAT could be recycled. Many of these bottles have been used for 80+ years now. I have a few Ball jars which my GREAT grandmother used 100+ years ago. Beer bottles in Canada are reused dozens of times and are recyclable (brow…

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, in that order. A lot of things don't need so much packaging in the first place.

Reduce is a consumer focused, it's a failing strategy. Reducing to 1% of what we currently throw away would still destroy the planet. Making reuse the centre point forces reduce to also happen, if your product has to ship in reusable containers, they are going to be smaller anyway. Products that don't need containers will stop using them again.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#53
post #37

We need to focus on the second R, reuse. I have mason jars that my grandmother and then my mother used for pickling. The only waste is the rubber ring which needs to be replaced occasionally and THAT could be recycled. Many of these bottles have been used for 80+ years now. I have a few Ball jars which my GREAT grandmother used 100+ years ago. Beer bottles in Canada are reused dozens of times and are recyclable (brow…

> The only containers which are infinitely recyclable are aluminum and coloured glass (nearly), but that takes energy. I've heard people say that the environmental cost of producing the clean water necessary to wash bottles for reuse is also harmful. I'd really like to see a side-by-side comparison of the environmental cost of the different available "obvious" options. > We need to just force manufacturers to bear th…

Energy is only an issue because we burn fossil fuels to generate energy, move bottles, etc.

Clean energy is already our most important goal from a "survival of the species" point of view.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#54
post #9

Wouldn't it be better to use as much paper as possible in the packaging and certify the paper is sourced from sustainable forestry? They we use the package as a carbon sink.

Paper lacks many properties sought after in plastic packaging. We end up coating the paper if we try to make it exhibit those properties, and the coatings frequently involve some kind of polymer.

If it wasn't for the microplastics problem that I don't see a solution for yet (need something on the order of Drexlerian nanotech to scour the environment and pull the microplastics out of it), then more durable, reusable designs of plastic packaging would be amazing.

Glass and stainless steel containers are my go-to solutions at home, but many people are unwilling to put up with their bulk and weight. My ideal is hermetically sealed glass containers [1] that use ground glass joints to seal, but there is a limited selection of their form factors (I can't find tall sizes for holding spaghetti, for example). I haven't been able to find stainless steel containers with reusable recycled rubber or cork gaskets in a good selection of form factors.

I've wondered what it would take to coordinate with a manufacturer or distributor to link up a crowdsource-driven supply chain to optimize for reduce and reuse. Crowdsource enough local people within biking/PRT/drone distance who will commit to buying some specific quantity periodically over a few years, and source wholesale quantities of goods to eliminate retail packaging. Send a truck on an optimized route picking up pallet loads of goods from different manufacturers/distributors. Use material handling robots to break down the full truck load of goods, pick and place into bins, and queue for last mile distribution of first month delivery. Remainder sits in a super-insulated (R-100 or so) warehouse. The question is about finding that breakeven point where the automation productivity can be captured by a small enough group of people that makes it worthwhile for them to implement instead of letting an Amazon/WalMart/Target capture the lion's share productivity gains' benefits.

[1] https://www.thomassci.com/scientific-supplies/Ground-Glass-B...

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#55
The plastic-in-the-environment problem is mainly about collection. Collect it, bury it, and it will eventually turn back into oil.

But IMHO manufacturers should be on the hook for the lifecycle of their products. Either through taxes, or some kind of market-driven bidding mechanism, they should have financial penalties (or even rewards), based on product environmental impact.

The whole recycling movement seems to me to be a way for companies to palm off this responsibility onto the public, and then win 'green publicity' when they deign to make their products slightly more amenable to the (usually public-funded/volunteer/coerced/etc) recycling system.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#56

FWIW - Pringles tubes are very effective in increasing wifi signal range. https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-make-a-wifi-antenna-out... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ioJ8i56pA

No they are not. They were used because someone did it and documented it, but the diameter and length is sub-optimal (75mm is too small) should be between 84 and 92mm (diameter).

Since this was probably more a joke I won't get too much into the details, but if you really want to build a "cantenna" there are great resources out there.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#57

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see a good reason why government can't introduce legislation to enforce standardized packaging across product "classes" to streamline reuse and recycling - for example, all soda bottles of size x, must come in shape y, made out of polymer z. The obvious financial impact would be companies having to potentially retool their factories to facilitate that, but there can also be sensible tax r…

> Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see a good reason why government can't introduce legislation to enforce ...

You are being naive, even in the European Union which has a fairly contained level of corruption the Plastic and Petro-chemical lobby are incredibly strong.

Many countries wanted to introduce a single-use plastic ban, almost immediately a campaign came out saying they were trying to kill people at hospitals where many consumables are single-use plastic (Obviously medical supplies were exempt from the ban). The single-use plastic ban was so watered down that now the only thing that will be baned are things like plastic forks and plastic q-tips.

Another example is return deposits, many European countries have very succesful glass deposit schemes usually reusing the supermarket stores' infrastructure. The natural progression of this is to create large plastic bootle/container deposits. Again this will never happen because it obviously stops the current externalization of costs in the plastic business.

There are two main forces at play against Humanity on the plastic front of our Anthropogenic calamity:

- The consumer product manufacturers (think Unilever, Pepsico, Nestle, Kraft, etc.). Their interest in plastic containers is mostly due to the reduction in production cost and transport costs. They heavily lobby against bans and any cost increase for their production chain.

- The Petro-Chemical industry (Including Big Oil companies), many of these refining business know they are getting squeezed out of the fuel business as electrical vehicle adoption is bound to increase. The Plastic production is the last remaining golden goose in their portfolio. A circular economy where most of the plastic is recycled from previously used plastic would mean that the volumes and profits of these very financially successful business would evaporate.

Both these lobbies and others will continue to resist and undermine any attempt to curb our planetary and Humane destruction until they are stopped either by public pressure or insolvency.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#58
The best approach would be to make corporations and people pay based on the amount of trash they generate. Similar to VAT, have a GAT.

All of a sudden, consumers would be keenly aware and happy to purchase products that reduce trash. Even better, weight it against the long term damage to the environment.

Yes, this is going to be ugly politically, but that's probably one way to capture the negative externalities of a product.

You could even have a very tiny tag with a number printed on the item that would allow you to look up a breakdown of what went into calculating it's 'GAT' score.

Re: Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare'

#60
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a Classico pasta sauce line that uses jars molded with Atlas Mason on them and fit Mason jar lids but are not designed to be reused for canning. Just for marketing.

I've found a way to upcycle those, they make excellent drinking glasses. My home is an old farmhouse in a semi-rural area, so it fits the aesthetic perfectly. I grew up poor, with my family reusing Mason and Bell jars as drinking glasses between canning seasons, so I'm comfortable with it. With the opening narrower than the body, they also prevent ice cubes from invading our mouths when we consume iced drinks. As an…

Yes! I love those jars.
Post reply on HN