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A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#51

Post by belorn »

wongarsu wrote: post #47
ovi256 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not self-contradictory to be eager for low-co2 energy and oppose nuclear due to its large-scale damage in case of an incident (and with Fukushima, 3Mile, Tchernobyl and various smaller incidents it's not like this is just theory) It is contradictory if one believes excess CO2 emissions cause global warming which may cause up to a billion people to become climate refugees in 2100 . A Chernobyl every year pales in…

Nuclear isn't out only option. Solar and wind are economically much more viable, and are safer (as in: they don't produce population displacing disasters, even if they might kill more people on average). Grid scale storage is becoming cheaper as well. Of course the belief that nuclear will be replaced by solar and wind is a bit naive: in the short term it's replaced by coal and gas, and only in the medium term can we…

This is going off-topic fast...

An exclusive solar and wind power grid is not more economical viable than an exclusive nuclear power grid, as is daily proven be the absent of such grids being developed. A power grid that combines solar, wind and fossil fuels are more economical viable than a power grid made by nuclear plants, and thus this combination is today out competing nuclear by a wide margin. Grid scale storage technology may in the future make solar, wind and storage a more economical viable solution than nuclear but no such power grid exist to date.

The economic viability of any energy source is depending on how the composition of the energy grid. Economic comparison between two sources is generally meaningless without the context of the grid, especially supply and demand.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#52

Post by johnny_b »

wongarsu wrote: post #48
candiodari wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that when you do find one of these people there is no depth to their thinking. They don't even know what GMO is, or why it's done, or why it's not so different from every other crop that was selectively bred for sometimes thousands of years. And even when you do find someone who does they are making arguments like "the modified genes will break loose" ... which is absurd ... and that was a very smart individua…

>GMO is about transplanting genes, so any gene used has already "broken loose" before it is ever transplanted into any GMO crop you can however transplant genes across species, which just doesn't happen in nature. The fear that these improved crops would outcompete native grasses outside the farm wouldn't be unjustified if it weren't for Monsanto doing everything they can to prevent farmers from replanting their harv…

Gene transplantation across species does occur in nature (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfers). Apparently our genome contains traces of viral DNA, and species of bacteria can swap genes using plasmids.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#53

Post by mcgt »

mohaine wrote: post #11
mcgt wrote: post #9

There's a better way to add nitrogen to soil and it's through the nitrogen cycle. The US Midwest (which grows a lot of corn) used to be highly populated with ruminants who did exactly this. We killed them all (well, most) and now grow corn which we use most to finish off cattle, which is also a ruminant. Maybe a better solution would be to feed the ruminants off the land now used by the corn? Imagine what that might…

This IS a nitrogen cycle. Sure it would be great to utilize waste nitrogen as well but that doesn't take away from this. Btw this is how lagumes fix nitrogen. This nothing new but since it is already in maze it can probably be crossbred into production corn lines without that toxic GMO label.

Bacteria fix nitrogen, not legumes.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#54

Post by callesgg »

ncmncm wrote: post #31

Apparently it is not making nitrogen at all, but splitting aerial nitrogen and binding it into bigger molecules. Making nitrogen would be an impressive achievement for anybody, never mind a plant. Probably easiest is to make a lot of hydrocarbons with deuterium substituted for the regular hydrogen, and pack that around a source of free neutrons. The neutrons would lose energy to the deuteriums, and end up slow enough…

Did you originally think we had found a variant of corn that was able to fuse or fission atoms?

Haha, that would be something!

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#55

Post by evgen »

wongarsu wrote: post #48
candiodari wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that when you do find one of these people there is no depth to their thinking. They don't even know what GMO is, or why it's done, or why it's not so different from every other crop that was selectively bred for sometimes thousands of years. And even when you do find someone who does they are making arguments like "the modified genes will break loose" ... which is absurd ... and that was a very smart individua…

>GMO is about transplanting genes, so any gene used has already "broken loose" before it is ever transplanted into any GMO crop you can however transplant genes across species, which just doesn't happen in nature. The fear that these improved crops would outcompete native grasses outside the farm wouldn't be unjustified if it weren't for Monsanto doing everything they can to prevent farmers from replanting their harv…

This is the sort of scientific illiteracy and ignorance masquerading as "reasoned response" that makes this whole exercise futile. Literally NOTHING in your comment was true. Not one single bit of it.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#56

Post by rsynnott »

FriedPickles wrote: post #26

Why can’t plants make their own nitrogenase? Why do they need to outsource the nitrogen fixation to bacteria?

I mean, why can't we live on sunlight, or purely on carbohydrates and trace elements? Organisms evolve for their environments; if something in your diet or the environment is producing enough of (whatever) for your needs, there's not much evolutionary pressure to produce it yourself. Or even keep the machinery for producing it in working order, if you have it.

Vitamins are a good example, we need them, but we don't produce them (except for D, but there are practical problems producing that in the environments and latitudes in which humans now live).

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#58

Post by tnjm »

henearkr wrote: post #12

With all this mucus dripping, won't it need even more water? Wouldn't that be a problem in the dry future?

It does. This landrace grows in areas receiving high rainfall, and with high ambient humidity -- and in my experience it only produces the mucus in those conditions, which sadly is likely to limit its potential, at least without very significant extra breeding work.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#59

Post by kickout »

Scoundreller wrote: post #34
rmason wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in the fertilizer business for twenty plus years. I went from Roundup's original introduction in the seventies to the beginnings of Roundup Ready seed. I kept a book in my office (as an EPA requirement) that allowed any employee or customer to view the safety of each chemical. Roundup was way safer to humans than the cocktail of other herbicides that it replaced. It felt like considerable progress at the time a…

> They could provide financial incentives however if they can convince the taxpayers it's worth the price. Or financial disincentives. Like an outright tax or removal of existing subsidies.

That does not play a role in their decision. They are rotating to other subsidized crops as well. If their was a profitable 'other' crop, they would grow it. Commodities are tough

https://thinkingagriculture.io/what-silicon-valley-doesnt-un...

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#60

Post by kickout »

knaq wrote: post #50
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GMO's are disliked not just because of gene editing, but the decidedly non-organic way that GMO's are typically grown. My understanding is that GMOs are typically used on industrial scale monocrop farms, with pesticides. So it gets tarnished by association.

It's often the other way. The GMO doesn't need to be sprayed with pesticides. That is the case with Bt corn for example. Bt corn has a protein that stops caterpillars from eating. Organic stuff is normally grown on industrial scale monocrop farms, with pesticides. Yes, really. All sorts of toxic pesticides are on the list of chemicals permitted for organic labeled foods. Many of them are worse. Go read the list if yo…

Yes ,@knaq is correct. Organic production systems _do_ spray chemicals and oftentimes those chemicals are clearly more dangerous than the chemical applied to modified crops.

Its been mentioned in this thread but Roundup is actually safe compared a whole host of chemicals we were spraying in the <1970s. There is currently not a world where crop production doesn't use herbicides (but it is coming thanks to drones and autonomous robots that can manually remove weeds)

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