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Is Sugar Toxic?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#81

Post by mkross »

Maybe sugar is toxic. I don't know (and there seem to be some pretty reasonable opinions both ways). However, there is a line in the article that really stands out to me:

"If Lustig is right, it would mean that sugar is also the likely dietary cause of several other chronic ailments widely considered to be diseases of Western lifestyles — heart disease, hypertension and many common cancers among them."

I can't tell if this is the author of the article extrapolating sugar's toxicity to explain the root of all ills, or whether Lustig makes that assertion. Either way, there doesn't seem to be anything more than postulation on that front. I'm hoping the purported science behind this theory is actually sound and not just fluff so that we get into arguments about sugar based on incorrect assumptions.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#82

Post by allwein »

skunkworks wrote: post #74
3am wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In response, you say that that this is not irresponsible journalism because doing nothing in a crisis is irresponsible, even if doing something involves a little bit of misdirection." Did I say that?

At some point -- and I'm not saying you've reached that point -- if enough people misread you, maybe you need to communicate more clearly. (Not trying to be rude.) Anyway, here are some fun refutations of Mr. Taubes body of dietary advice: http://reason.com/archives/2003/03/01/big-fat-fake http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-content/uploads/2008/0... I guess the big issue I have with his advice is that obesity is r…

But as always, correlation != causation.

In his books, Gary Taubes makes an argument that the causal relationship is reversed. It's not that eating too much causes your body to store the excess as fat. Rather it's that your body is storing necessary energy as fat before your body can use it, so you need to eat more to make up the deficit.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#83

Post by AlexC04 »

jalada wrote: post #73

tl;dr?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Go to 57:00 and you should get to the bit where he explains why Fructose is a poison. Loses a bit in translation without the hour leading up to it, (which is absolutely fascinating).

However, that should cover your TL;DR.

Even shorter version: Fructose can only be processed by the liver. That means, by definition it is a poison.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#84

Post by shpxnvz »

dpatru wrote: post #25
pessimist wrote: post #3

"Officially I’m not supposed to worry because the evidence isn’t conclusive, but I do." Wow, that was a content-free article, borderline scare-mongering, eg. "when you bake your children a birthday cake or give them lemonade on a hot summer day, you may be doing them more harm than good". There's no information about what sort of doses are really bad at all, and so nothing useful to learn from it. I have 2 kids who w…

The experts disagree on sugar's toxicity. The NYT is not going to come right out and say, "Don't let your kids eat sugar." But there is enough evidence presented and cited in the article to make this a reasonable conclusion. I found this passage particularly compelling: "During the Korean War, pathologists doing autopsies on American soldiers killed in battle noticed that many had significant plaques in their arterie…

Or a Chinese farmer for that matter (though this one deals with protein rather than sugar):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China-Oxford-Cornell_Study_on_D...

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#85

Post by bgentry »

rflrob wrote: post #51

"In Lustig’s view, sugar should be thought of, like cigarettes and alcohol, as something that’s killing us." I don't smoke, but I do drink alcohol in moderated amounts, and I'd disagree that alcohol is "killing us" [1], and feel that even if it were proved beyond a doubt that alcohol monotonically decreases lifespan, it helps make life enjoyable enough to be worth it. The same is true for processed sugar, in moderate…

He's not so much saying that sugar in general is killing us. He's arguing that the way we're consuming it now (both volume and generally isolated from fiber/other nutrients) is what's killing us.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#86

Post by tygorius »

pdx wrote: post #80

I used to pop Rolaids for heartburn like crazy. I did this for years, until I was actually developing a toxic reaction to the Rolaids and I began trying other ways to control my heartburn. I finally discovered that sugar (and alcohol) were my biggest contributors. So for me, sugar is definitely toxic. Now that I limit my sugar, I go weeks without heartburn, and when I do get it, it's usually because I had some beer o…

You might be interested in Lustig's lecture on YouTube then. About 2/3 of the way through he goes into how HFCS is processed in the brain. In short, you get many of the disadvantages of alcohol, without the pleasant side-effects.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#87

Post by AlexC04 »

AlexC04 wrote: post #83
jalada wrote: post #73

tl;dr?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM Go to 57:00 and you should get to the bit where he explains why Fructose is a poison. Loses a bit in translation without the hour leading up to it, (which is absolutely fascinating). However, that should cover your TL;DR. Even shorter version: Fructose can only be processed by the liver. That means, by definition it is a poison.

More TL:DR for you.

At 1:08:00 (ish)

The effects of long term Fuctose use is virtually identical to long term alcoholism (8 out of 12 effects)

(at 1:09:00 ish) Intervention:

1) Remove all sugared drinks from your diet. Water & Milk only

2) Eat carbohydrates with fibre.

3) Wait 20 minutes before a second portion.

4) "Buy" your screen time, minute for minute with physical activity. (holy crap! I've got an eight hour work day to buy back!)

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#88

Post by Jun8 »

Here's my (somewhat childish and Bioshock-ish) response along the lines of Shaw's "The reasonable man adapts ..." idea: Why are we still bound by our body mechanisms that were determined by our cavemen ancestors millions of years ago? Rather than cutting back sugar, maybe we should find a way to re-engineer our cellular structure to avoid the metabolic syndrome, mentioned in the article. Why work towards healthy, rather than bend "healthy" towards our will?

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#89

Post by kenjackson »

rflrob wrote: post #51

"In Lustig’s view, sugar should be thought of, like cigarettes and alcohol, as something that’s killing us." I don't smoke, but I do drink alcohol in moderated amounts, and I'd disagree that alcohol is "killing us" [1], and feel that even if it were proved beyond a doubt that alcohol monotonically decreases lifespan, it helps make life enjoyable enough to be worth it. The same is true for processed sugar, in moderate…

I think all addictive drugs that decrease lifespan seem worth it to the person doing it. Ask a crackhead if crack is worth dying for and he'll say "hell yes" -- then rob you.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#90

Post by pradocchia »

In animals, or at least in laboratory rats and mice, it’s clear that if the fructose hits the liver in sufficient quantity and with sufficient speed, the liver will convert much of it to fat. This apparently induces a condition known as insulin resistance, which is now considered the fundamental problem in obesity, and the underlying defect in heart disease and in the type of diabetes, type 2, that is common to obese and overweight individuals. It might also be the underlying defect in many cancers.

I've seen this liver-cancer connection in other places, such as Chinese Traditional Medicine and Italian folk medicine. Interesting to see it cropping up here.

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