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Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

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Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the last few comments have had no new information. Well yeah, you just ignored the things that I said, multiple times.

... we are not lawyers! We cannot make productive arguments about anti-trust law! I have done my best to respond to you respectfully and with my best ability. I have previously responded to your specific questions with, “ If then yes. But it seems unlikely” and “It’ll be more productive for us to wait for the results of the lawsuit.”, etc. Are you willing to answer the questions I asked?

> We cannot make productive arguments about anti-trust law!

The entire discussion of all of this, is about anti-trust law....

Also, we can absolutely make reasoned judgements on things, based on the evidence.

I am not sure why people have a tendency to think that law, precedent, and court cases are somehow completely impenetrable to people who have not spent decades of their life studying it.

In fact, speaking as someone who has read the legal documents in this court case, as well as attended the public zoom call court case (The epic vs apple trial is public! You, yourself can listen in on it in a zoom call!), what I can tell you is that the arguments that people are making are not complicated legalese. Instead, the lawyers and judges are making reasonable, and understandable arguments, that are pretty easy to follow along.

In fact, our entire justice system is built on the concept of juries, which are full of people who are not legal professionals, just like you and I, who decide based on listening to the arguments, and making a judgement themself on who was right or wrong.

If a jury is entrusted with the legal power, to determine the outcome of our justice system, then I think it is ok for individuals, who have listened to the trials, read the court documents, and done research on the law, to make reasonable judgements themselves on the matter, when having casual conversations regarding the topic.

> But it seems unlikely

For which you provided poor supporting arguments.

> answer the questions I asked

You tried to ignore the main point that I was trying to make, regarding anti-trust law, for which I providing well reasoned arguments, and you tried to ignore it by engaging in what was effectively an implied ad hominem by trying to attack me based on perceived (and false!) notion regarding how much I may or may not use certain devices.

You even literally used the word "character" to describe this. Which was effective admitting that you were not attacking the substance of my comment, but were instead trying to investigate my "character".

I reject that. When you cannot respond to the substance of someone comments, I do not think it is valid to try and switch things up by interrogating someone's character, based on false perceived notions of their character or experience.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All products even with ownership come with rules and regulations. Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with. Ownership of an iPhone is not different. It just has special rules attached. If you don’t mind breaking the warranty, please jailbreak your iPhone and install whatever apps you’d prefer.

The US courts have consistently held that it is perfectly legal to do anything to your privated owned things that are not public. Your house example is wrong, because that has public viewing concerns on a plot of land. And your car example is incorrect. I could make any changes at all to a car, that is not put on public roads. That has nothing to do with the manufacturer putting restrictions on your car.

This is false, modern cars contain equipment capable of transmitting EM waves and thus regulated by the FCC and equivalent agencies in most other countries. These regulations apply even on private property. You can not arbitrarily change that legally.

The same applies to all private houses, installing in a home a powerful transmitter to broadcast noise is certainly illegal without approval.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#613
post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. I pretty happily try out subscription apps on iOS (which I rarely to never do online). Why? It's darn easy to cancel. I get a reminder in advance even. This contrasts in my experience with nearly EVERY other auto-billing approach out there. The time I sometimes spend calling people to cancel stuff (that I could sign up for online) is ridiculous. Another nice touch that builds trust. I once deleted an ap…

Apple once let somebody hack my account and purchase the same $20 app 15 times. When I complained, they ignored me. When I charged back the purchases, they canceled my Apple account. Purchasing the same app more than once on the same device shouldn't even be possible. This was back in 2011, but... definitely didn't build trust. But you guys aren't arguing the actual point anyway. The question is whether the forced ap…

Apple has made a decision not to target folks who want direct downloads. They are targeting a different (and very large and lucrative group). They've also managed to block direct download of built in / unremovable apps by carriers and to some degree pioneered the direct to consumer model of cell phone sales, all consumer benefits.

One result - they have a pretty high level of trust among users. And so they can charge a pretty remarkable premium. This level of control has also made them popular for developers. Their ecosystem has a much more consistent development experience, many more users are on a relatively recent iOS and the per user spending is far higher to name just a few elements.

Many of these things are benefits for DEVELOPERS. Sony and Microsoft make the PS and XBOX, also closed systems with networks they hope benefit developers.

And finally, does apple have an obligation to help developers make money or is their focus more properly on consumers?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#614
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do those platforms prevent you from directing people to your own website or payment system for IAP or forbid you from mentioning the fees associated? I haven’t bought any IAPs for a console, so I’m not sure.

Actually in console world it's exactly the same, see [1]. Sony even pockets the same fee - 30 percent - off every DLC transaction. [1] https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/08/playstation_makes_mo...

Good to know. I’ll take your word for it that it’s the same, but the article doesn’t say that Sony forbids using your oven payment processor.
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