TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works • Hacker News Board

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#161

Post by kosievdmerwe » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 12:24 AM UTC

baddox wrote: post #139

jrockway wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch a lot of YouTube and haven't really noticed any artificially long videos in my bubble of channels. I agree that intros are annoying (I have no idea why people do them), but other than that... it's just the usual video stuff. The nature of the format is that a one page blog post becomes a 10 minute video. People talk slower than they read, so it's somewhat unavoidable. There are also YouTubers that are really…

I don't find much filler among the areas of interest that I specifically follow on YouTube (some of that of course being due to my own selection of who to subscribe to), but I do find that filler on YouTube when I'm searching for some other instructional information on Google.

My "favorite" set of bullshit videos is "How to pronounce" videos.

They're really long and typically use text to speech instead of a human.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#162

Post by erklik » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 12:31 AM UTC

jbverschoor wrote: post #80

I never really understood why TikTok is such a threat Except for maybe collecting too much data, but that’s any app, and luckily Apple is taking their measurements for certain things

Its the first tech social app i.e. Facebook, MySpace and the like from China, a country that is not America. That is all there is to it. America realizes that China is catching up, and considering there are a billion Chinese, it is inevitable that China will be a foremost power that either competes with or simply overtakes America.

The current foremost power, America, doesn't like that.

At the very least, this whole thing has made clear that principles that America repeatedly espouses are forgotten quite quickly when it wants to retain power.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#163

Post by erklik » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 12:32 AM UTC

Jommi wrote: post #131

red_hare wrote: post #127

I find that it takes device into account very interesting. What does me using an iPhone XS vs a Samsung Note vs a generic cheap Android phone say about me? I wonder if ends up being a proxy for income, age, or gender...

oh its 1000% a proxy for income. No doubt about it.

Third world vs First world as well. People in America don't want to see the content made by folks in rural India.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#164

Post by throwaway0a5e » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 12:33 AM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #133

pizza wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the recommendation algorithm had knobs users could manipulate. eg - show me things that have - reduce the weight of popular channels - don't send me into a political content feedback loop - prefer to show me short videos - show me something wildly outside my tastes every now and then I just got the Youtube Music app and it had very crude music recommendation options. You have to pick from a pre-selected list o…

The biggest problem in user-facing software right now is that product managers assume they + an algorithm can figure out what you want based on behavior, and that you shouldn't have any direct input in that. The best you'll usually see is an "i don't like this" button. Spotify sidesteps some of this by just giving you a bunch of different algorithms feeding different playlists, so at least there are options, but I mi…

It's part of the whole ~30yr trend of infantilizing adults and assuming you know better because you're the professional. Nobody believes people can make their own decisions about want they like and dislike anymore.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#165

Post by afterburner » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 12:35 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #82

undefined1 wrote: post #73

TikTok is like a highly compressed version of YouTube. YouTube incentivizes creators to make artificially long videos, resulting in a huge amount of filler. So you get a lot of videos where you can skip the first 20%+ and not miss anything. The content is buried and spread out. 1 minute of content surrounded by 9 minutes of filler. TikTok removed those 9 minutes, so it feels very refreshing in that respect. There's n…

I watch a lot of YouTube and haven't really noticed any artificially long videos in my bubble of channels. I agree that intros are annoying (I have no idea why people do them), but other than that... it's just the usual video stuff. The nature of the format is that a one page blog post becomes a 10 minute video. People talk slower than they read, so it's somewhat unavoidable. There are also YouTubers that are really…

> I am always shocked when I get logged out and am on the default main page

Yeah no kidding. The stuff that's popular on Youtube is like it's from another planet to me. I stick to my subscription page.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#166

Post by leesec » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:12 AM UTC

jzymbaluk wrote: post #85

xnx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also found that TikTok does a good job of throwing in unexpected videos to test the waters of what the user is interested in. This diversity is one of my favorite things about it.

A common comment I see on Tiktok videos is something like "I've finally made it to [niche interest] tiktok", it's something I've experienced myself when the algorithm started showing me videos from the crew on cargo ships as they talk about their favorite ports to dock at, or their experience going through E.G the Panama Canal. I don't know any other platform that emergently figures out that I have an interest in int…

>>started showing me videos from the crew on cargo ships as they talk about their favorite ports to dock at,

the answer is always whatever port your at on crew change day.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#167

Post by lbacaj » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:14 AM UTC

I think a huge reason, I didn’t see in the article, that TikTok is able to train their ML to be far more effective than any other video platform out there has to do with the size of those clips and how easy it is to flip through them.

If we are watching 30 second clips, flipping through them quickly, that’s 2 signals a minute and 20 signals every 10 minutes (the average size of a YouTube video) and that is assuming we watched 20 videos, we might have flipped through 60 in 10 minutes.

That’s 60 signals where YouTube would’ve gotten 1 signal. Whose ML will be better trained with your preferences? Obviously TikTok, I don’t think there is anything special about their algorithms it’s just a function of their product and the type of content.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#168

Post by Mascobot » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:38 AM UTC

Well, this is not really "revealing" anything new on "TikTok algorithms".

This is actually a very simple description of a very basic methodology. Not an algorithm.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#169

Post by blackrock » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:57 AM UTC

It’s rather comical, how for the past 20 years, Americans have been claiming themselves to be the pinnacle of creativity and innovation. And at the same time, denouncing the Chinese as a bunch of copycats-but-can-never-innovate. And they said the same thing about the Japanese a generation earlier.

Even Carly Fiorina, the witch CEO that burned down HP, said that the Chinese cannot innovate. [1]

And here you have a prime example of a Chinese company that found a good usage of the recommendation AI technique, and applied it in an innovative way, and created a whole new platform, that works better than YouTube or Twitter or Facebook.

And what happens? The white Americans steal it. Oh I’m sorry, their president declared it into law, like a dictator does, and force Tiktok to sell itself at firesale prices.

And what of all the supporters here on HN that have claimed that the Chinese can’t innovate. Well, their obvious answer is that Tiktok is obviously a spyware app for the Chinese government.

The American way to steal, is to force a firesale by edict, and get the patents for it. Then claim that it is their own.

The United States also did this to Toshiba and other Japanese semiconductor companies in the 1980s. Same dirty trick, different generation.

LOL. The hypocrisy of Americans.

But of course, you are free to prove me wrong.

Also, I expect to get flagged and downvoted for this comment.

[1] https://time.com/3897081/carly-fiorina-china-innovation/

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#170

Post by 0xy » Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 2:12 AM UTC

erklik wrote: post #162

jbverschoor wrote: post #80

I never really understood why TikTok is such a threat Except for maybe collecting too much data, but that’s any app, and luckily Apple is taking their measurements for certain things

Its the first tech social app i.e. Facebook, MySpace and the like from China, a country that is not America. That is all there is to it. America realizes that China is catching up, and considering there are a billion Chinese, it is inevitable that China will be a foremost power that either competes with or simply overtakes America. The current foremost power, America, doesn't like that. At the very least, this whole…

Why should principles be given to countries that do not reciprocate? All major American tech companies are banished from China, and the only ones left are ones who agreed to transfer IP to be stolen by the CCP.