Is Sugar Toxic? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#51

Post by rflrob » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:27 PM UTC

"In Lustig’s view, sugar should be thought of, like cigarettes and alcohol, as something that’s killing us."

I don't smoke, but I do drink alcohol in moderated amounts, and I'd disagree that alcohol is "killing us" [1], and feel that even if it were proved beyond a doubt that alcohol monotonically decreases lifespan, it helps make life enjoyable enough to be worth it. The same is true for processed sugar, in moderate amounts (though I'd take a ripe honeycrisp apple over a twinkie any day).

[1]http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2010-09/09/why-alcohol-i...

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#52

Post by trustfundbaby » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:27 PM UTC

I'm actually curious about what this says about consuming fruits in large amounts ... since they are pretty much all fructose.

Some folks I know (I did for a bit) consume fruits with gusto, erroneously thinking they don't have effects close to what refined sugars have on the body

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#53

Post by mast » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:28 PM UTC

I'm not a nutritionist, biologist, or doctor, but I have a huge sweet tooth, and I actually tried to answer this question on my humble little blog (http://foodconstrued.com/2011/02/sugar-cravings/) back in February.

My answer: It is not the sugar, but the empty calories leading to obesity and then to further health complications.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#54

Post by defen » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:28 PM UTC

tmcw wrote: post #43

Journalist who hasn't done any research on sugar agrees with doctor who hasn't done any research on sugar. And this happens to be great linkbait. Tell me why I should pay for the New York Times, again?

This is pretty much the definition of an ad hominem argument. In the context of your post, calling Taubes a "journalist" is overly reductive and an attempt to discredit him without actually engaging his arguments. I would liken it to dismissing Bill Gates' thoughts on education by calling him a college dropout - it's a true statement but ignores the larger truth. According to his bio, Taubes studied applied physics at Harvard and has an MS in aerospace engineering from Stanford so I think he's capable of understanding scientific issues.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#55

Post by JonnieCache » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:31 PM UTC

wnoise wrote: post #6

How can one buy bulk glucose to use as a sweetener instead of fructose or sucrose?

If you're using it for coffee, my solution to that problem was to start drinking a better quality of coffee, then you won't want to add sugar.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#56

Post by Sapient » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:34 PM UTC

trustfundbaby wrote: post #52

I'm actually curious about what this says about consuming fruits in large amounts ... since they are pretty much all fructose. Some folks I know (I did for a bit) consume fruits with gusto, erroneously thinking they don't have effects close to what refined sugars have on the body

I believe Lustig says the fiber in the fruit reduces the amount of sugar absorbed by our bodies.

However, he also says that sweet fruits in large quantities can still be bad for us.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#57

Post by fanboy123 » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:34 PM UTC

burgerbrain wrote: post #12

pg wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being tentative about drawing conclusions is not the same as being content free. Considering how often past dietary advice has been wrong, it seems like this topic could use a little more tentativeness.

"Considering how often past dietary advice has been wrong" ... ...I would argue that writing news articles about things with no conclusive evidence is worse than irresponsible journalism. It's downright harmful, in the most literal sense of the term.

Gary says explicitly there is no conclusive evidence. He is making the appeal for the studies to be done. I find little that is harmful about the attempt. He just wants something that is potentially dangerous to be studied scientifically.

He explains this in his comments: "Again, one common theme here is that because sugar has gotten more or a less free pass from the federal authorities for the past forty years, little meaningful research has been done."

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#58

Post by neonscribe » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:39 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #11

pessimist wrote: post #3

"Officially I’m not supposed to worry because the evidence isn’t conclusive, but I do." Wow, that was a content-free article, borderline scare-mongering, eg. "when you bake your children a birthday cake or give them lemonade on a hot summer day, you may be doing them more harm than good". There's no information about what sort of doses are really bad at all, and so nothing useful to learn from it. I have 2 kids who w…

I actually found it to be content dense. It was a bit unactionable, but a good amount of content. Of course he also gives you the names, so you can look up the studies, although he also pretty much tells you that its not applicable to your current diet. Again, maybe not actionable, but definitely content. Especially for a mainstream newspaper article.

Do you mean actionable in the legal sense? I agree, there isn't enough evidence to sue anyone at this point. If you refer to action that an individual or family can take, how about this: eliminate sweet drinks, desserts and snacks from your diet.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#59

Post by burgerbrain » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:39 PM UTC

3am wrote: post #50

burgerbrain wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rise in diabetes and other ailments is not conclusive evidence that sugar is toxic, and that you think it might be does a pretty good job of demonstrating my point (that this stuff should be kept in journals, to be read by people who understand how science works, and only thrown into newspapers when we have proof).

I spent half my undergrad in labs, writing up formal scientific results. I wrote and was graded on plenty of scientific papers. I have a fine understanding of scientific publishing, data analysis, and experimental methods. The fact that you misread me is your problem. I did not write there was conclusive evidence that sucrose is toxic. I said _conclusive evidence of a problem_ - which is different thing and is clearl…

Conclusive evidence of a problem is completely irrelevant.

Responding to a comment referring to a specific lack of evidence about sugar/toxicity by saying that there is conclusive evidence of "a problem" implies relevancy, which implies that you are confusing the two issues.

Re: Is Sugar Toxic?

#60

Post by mirkules » Wed, Apr 13, 2011, 7:40 PM UTC

yread wrote: post #38

pak wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic and pointing out that anything is "toxic" in high quantities. In case you aren't, or for people that did not catch it, 29g/kg is about 2.4kg of sugar for the average 80kg male, which comes out to about 12.5 cups or 3 liters. It should be obvious to most people that filling a two-liter bottle with pure granulated sugar and consuming it in one sitting would have severe health cons…

I was being sarcastic. But I also wanted to post to point to the fact that scientists believe that 50% of the people who ate this much sugar would in fact survive !

...and that they tested it enough to even have an average number.