TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works • Hacker News Board

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#91

Post by dirtyid » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #82

undefined1 wrote: post #73

TikTok is like a highly compressed version of YouTube. YouTube incentivizes creators to make artificially long videos, resulting in a huge amount of filler. So you get a lot of videos where you can skip the first 20%+ and not miss anything. The content is buried and spread out. 1 minute of content surrounded by 9 minutes of filler. TikTok removed those 9 minutes, so it feels very refreshing in that respect. There's n…

I watch a lot of YouTube and haven't really noticed any artificially long videos in my bubble of channels. I agree that intros are annoying (I have no idea why people do them), but other than that... it's just the usual video stuff. The nature of the format is that a one page blog post becomes a 10 minute video. People talk slower than they read, so it's somewhat unavoidable. There are also YouTubers that are really…

YT channels with frequent update formats are 10-20% filler with intro/endcard/credits/sponsors. Most talk slow enough that they can be comfortably watched at 2x speed. Channels like contrapoints - irregular long form content that's usually demonetized and funded via patreon doesn't waste your time as much. But they're still paced differently than TikToks which bias towards brevity. There's still some tedious videos... lots of old codger maker content that takes the full minute to show 10 second worth of content, but from my experience, that's still shorter than sitting through youtube filler.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#92

Post by dirtyid » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #88

undefined1 wrote: post #73

TikTok is like a highly compressed version of YouTube. YouTube incentivizes creators to make artificially long videos, resulting in a huge amount of filler. So you get a lot of videos where you can skip the first 20%+ and not miss anything. The content is buried and spread out. 1 minute of content surrounded by 9 minutes of filler. TikTok removed those 9 minutes, so it feels very refreshing in that respect. There's n…

> TikTok removed those 9 minutes, so it feels very refreshing in that respect. There's no incentive to create filler - just the opposite. It's to a point that I skip any TikTok video that starts like “I was in the forest and found this mushroom. Did you know that this kind of mushroom can be used to... ”. I skip it as soon as I hear “I was in the“ (that and the usual tone that comes with it). I don't care. Show me di…

Yeah I wish TikTok has variable speed / fast forward option. Another factor for ML to train and automatically speed up to the juicy bits. There's a lot of room to waste even in 1 minute formats. Though TikTok itself is mostly time wasting and this remark is more an indictment of my attention span.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#93

Post by dynamite-ready » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

jordache wrote: post #78

rvz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> flavor of the month/year? Actually, yes. This particular generation will eventually grow out of TikTok like they did with other social networks at their peak of the hype cycle: Snapchat (2014), YikYak (2014), Vine (2015), Shots (2012) and SNOW (2016) etc. TikTok is no different and yet another hype masterpiece for the record books and the news media. The new kids will find another one to replace it and suddenly it…

ha Vine

Yes. Very much so. What happened to them?

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#94

Post by dynamite-ready » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

gazelleeatslion wrote: post #19

Does anyone actually trust any of this nonsense? At this scale, TikTok, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook.. it should legally be required to either: - Open Source It - Provide clear option to opt-out - Provide the params to be 100% configurable Wake up people!

I think your tone is a little abrupt, but I'm all for laws that mandate, at the very least, high level descriptions of data processing algorithms.

A bit of random adjunct, but if I buy a piece of KFC, how would I know if I'm allergic to one of the 11 herbs and spices, if the company isn't legally obliged to reveal it?

Likewise, how would you know if a company is processing data for a nefarious end, if you don't know how it's processed?

I know alruism seems unlikely, but how can you be so sure?

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#95

Post by Reedx » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #82

undefined1 wrote: post #73

TikTok is like a highly compressed version of YouTube. YouTube incentivizes creators to make artificially long videos, resulting in a huge amount of filler. So you get a lot of videos where you can skip the first 20%+ and not miss anything. The content is buried and spread out. 1 minute of content surrounded by 9 minutes of filler. TikTok removed those 9 minutes, so it feels very refreshing in that respect. There's n…

I watch a lot of YouTube and haven't really noticed any artificially long videos in my bubble of channels. I agree that intros are annoying (I have no idea why people do them), but other than that... it's just the usual video stuff. The nature of the format is that a one page blog post becomes a 10 minute video. People talk slower than they read, so it's somewhat unavoidable. There are also YouTubers that are really…

Yeah, I'm making a generalization about the platform and what it incentivizes. It's definitely not to say that all channels create filler.

Being logged in and curating really makes all the difference. ContraPoints, CGP Grey, Joe Rogan, Kurzgesagt - I think that kind of content shines on YouTube, isn't possible on TikTok, and don't see them as artificially long.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#96

Post by sudosysgen » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

jbverschoor wrote: post #80

I never really understood why TikTok is such a threat Except for maybe collecting too much data, but that’s any app, and luckily Apple is taking their measurements for certain things

The real threat is that it allows China to get a foothold into the international tech game, and thus allows them to become more powerful in comparison with their adversaries.

Which is a legitimate threat to some people, but it's not that much of a threat to the common man.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#97

Post by bilater » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

I mean it's just Collaborative filtering no?

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#98

Post by blululu » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

TLDR: We do some math https://xkcd.com/1838/ On a more serious note I think there is a lot of sophistication and that is being left out from this very simplified explanation. To say something like 'we show things from other clusters every so often' over looks so many questions about how far apart the clusters are, and how often these are shown. These values are foundational to the UX and understanding how to tune them should get a lot more focus than it does. In the future it would be good for the AI community and the associated HCI researchers in AIUX to focus on how these settings change the experience of a ML pipeline.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#99

Post by hooande » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #72

benreesman wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dwell is a very powerful ranking signal in a binary classifier. Pairwise association of videos watched by the same user consecutively or even just sampled pairs from their last N videos will get you a video embedding. Pairwise sampling of users who watch the same video to the end will get you a user embedding. Turking category tags will prime the pump for other types of embeddings. These things can be ensembles, stac…

What surprises me is all of what you've said is the way pretty much all recommenders work - YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. will all be doing this. Yet people don't spend hours per day browsing tweets. What is it about tiktok which is so much more effective?

I spend hours per day browsing tweets. Nothing about this algorithm seems to be groundbreaking. TikTok has a strong brand and is benefiting from that

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#100

Post by conradfr » Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

undefined1 wrote: post #73

TikTok is like a highly compressed version of YouTube. YouTube incentivizes creators to make artificially long videos, resulting in a huge amount of filler. So you get a lot of videos where you can skip the first 20%+ and not miss anything. The content is buried and spread out. 1 minute of content surrounded by 9 minutes of filler. TikTok removed those 9 minutes, so it feels very refreshing in that respect. There's n…

I guess that's why there is short video suggestions now in the Youtube app.