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Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

bloomberg.com

21–29 of 29 posts

Re: Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

#21
post #5

What would the concrete mental illness be?

The article hints at it: > [Mindy] Mechanic is an expert on the psychosocial consequences of trauma, with a focus on violence against women, and often provides expert testimony in cases involving “interpersonal violence,” according to her faculty profile on the school’s website.

It looks like she's going to blame it all on her cofounder, who was also her boyfriend.

Re: Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

#22
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the more insightful comments a therapist once told me is that “many personality disorders like narcissism and borderline personality disorder are commonly misdiagnosed by the general public as ‘being an asshole’”. That being said I’m dubious that even a diagnose of NPD or similar is a agreed upon defense against criminal charges.

Is that really a misdiagnosis on the part of the general public, or are those terms just medical classifications for what everyone acknowledges is unacceptable behavior? Are they any less of an asshole because some doctor has carefully scrutinized and categorized the exact ways in which they’re an asshole, and why?

“Misdiagnosis” in a very broad, not technically correct sense. The issue at hand is what some random civilian should do in the situation; the way that you’d deal with someone who’s just being an asshole is quite different from what you’d do when interacting with a sociopath or narcissist.

Not every asshole reaches the level to warrant a medical diagnosis as a personality disorder. The bar for personality disorders is purposefully set quite high, and usually requires that the symptoms persist over long periods of time. Some people are just plain jerks, other people have personality disorders that predispose them to behaviors and delusions that are harmful to other people.

As far as them being “less of an asshole” because of their diagnosis, I never said or implied that. No medical diagnosis will change the impact of one’s behaviors; knowing that the person who just flamed you is medically a narcissist doesn’t reduce the impact of the flames. It’s best to assess impact completely separate from intent, in my opinion.

That being said, assessing the intention of someone with a personality disorder is really hard (much harder than it is normally with any other person), because people with disorders appear to suffer internally delusions which serve to make their behaviors feel justified, even if the excuses don’t hold a lot of water to a neutral observer. Are they intending to cause harm and justifying it after the fact, or are they disconnected with reality and reacting intensely to events that only occurred in their own heads? I don’t know.

Per usual, I’m no expert, I’ve just done a lot of motivated reading on the subject.

Re: Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

#23

They must be running low on good defensive options. As a non-expert, it kind of looks like the only mental disease she could possibly claim would be some variant of sociopathy, and I don’t think sociopaths get to use their disease as an excuse during criminal trials.

It could also just be decent lawyers throwing everything they can hoping some will stick

Re: Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

#24
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite possibly some sort of personality disorder, e.g. Narcissistic or Antisocial PD. Most ordinary people are unaware of just how devious and manipulative these types can be. It's like two people in one person, a Jekyll and Hyde personality. A public face of kindness and generosity. And ruthless controlling behavior and manipulation in private, often this behavior is compulsive.

One of the more insightful comments a therapist once told me is that “many personality disorders like narcissism and borderline personality disorder are commonly misdiagnosed by the general public as ‘being an asshole’”. That being said I’m dubious that even a diagnose of NPD or similar is a agreed upon defense against criminal charges.

Wow, my comment about how devious people with NPD/APD are just got flagged. Does anyone know why this has happened? Have I broken any of the site rules here?

[Update] Double checked the site rules, not sure if mentioning that she might have a PD is against them or not.

It wouldn't surprise me that there are quite a few people out there who want information about such disorders suppressed. But I'm not really sure if that's 100% the case here.

Re: Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

#25

They must be running low on good defensive options. As a non-expert, it kind of looks like the only mental disease she could possibly claim would be some variant of sociopathy, and I don’t think sociopaths get to use their disease as an excuse during criminal trials.

It could also just be decent lawyers throwing everything they can hoping some will stick

That's essentially the same point the parent is making.

If they had a clear, viable strategy they wouldn't be playing the twinkie defense or trying anything that might work.

Re: Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

#26
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the more insightful comments a therapist once told me is that “many personality disorders like narcissism and borderline personality disorder are commonly misdiagnosed by the general public as ‘being an asshole’”. That being said I’m dubious that even a diagnose of NPD or similar is a agreed upon defense against criminal charges.

Wow, my comment about how devious people with NPD/APD are just got flagged. Does anyone know why this has happened? Have I broken any of the site rules here? [Update] Double checked the site rules, not sure if mentioning that she might have a PD is against them or not. It wouldn't surprise me that there are quite a few people out there who want information about such disorders suppressed. But I'm not really sure if t…

Amateur diagnoses of psychological conditions by someone who has never interacted with the patient in a clinical setting deserves to be downvoted. The problem there is that you wrap it in terms that mean something, but you don't have the education or access to use those words correctly.

It's irresponsible and amounts to un-informed gossip that questions who someone is at their core.

Re: Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also just be decent lawyers throwing everything they can hoping some will stick

That's essentially the same point the parent is making. If they had a clear, viable strategy they wouldn't be playing the twinkie defense or trying anything that might work.

And to be clear, I don’t blame her lawyers for doing this. It’s their job to zealously defend her, as distasteful as I find her behavior to have been, and the defense is what the defense must be.

But yeah, they must not have much else available if they’re going for the insanity plea.

Re: Theranos’ Holmes May Pursue ‘Mental Disease’ in Her Defense

#29
post #18

Is 'affluenza' an affirmative defense?

Yes, it’s been tried before. Ethan Couch[0] used it to get a low sentence after driving drunk, killing four people and injuring nine quite greviously. The basic argument was that he wasn’t given any feedback as a child, and needed rehabilitation, and managed to get him put into rehab and 10 years probation.

Given that he was re arrested two years later for drinking and violating probation, it doesn’t seem like the rehab worked.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch

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