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TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

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Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#61
post #8

It's a (seemingly) pretty simple matter of keeping track of how long someone looks at a video, and optimizing to show them videos they'll spend a long time looking at. It's pretty powerful too, I spend much more time looking at TikTok than any other digital content aggregator (to the extent I had to delete it from my phone). They also do some things like sprinkle in random fresh videos, potentially unrelated to your…

I actually think it's got much more to do with the training data. Given that you are watching a video, you need to either swipe away from it, or finish watching it. This provides either a 1 or 0 for the video classification model. The important contrast here is with FB/IG feed where you can scroll aimlessly without engaging, leaving you with perhaps 1 engagement out of 10 (or whatever). The attached doc suggests that…

Dwell is a very powerful ranking signal in a binary classifier.

Pairwise association of videos watched by the same user consecutively or even just sampled pairs from their last N videos will get you a video embedding.

Pairwise sampling of users who watch the same video to the end will get you a user embedding.

Turking category tags will prime the pump for other types of embeddings.

These things can be ensembles, stacked, force learned jointly, etc.

All of this comes out of the box in Keras (though it’s up to you to feed the data in fast when you’ve got a lot office).

You can argue that getting latent representations/factorizations without explicit “user clicked show me more” is semi-supervised I guess, but if so all the recommender stuff since the Netflix Challenge meets that criteria to one degree or another.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably YT algorithm fall into a local maximum where it detected that X is enraging enough, then creators notice that the X is popular and they start putting more X, then the algorithm is putting more weight behind X and you are now stuck here.

Not because of that, but because YouTube does not have human curators.

Can you tell me a case where humans curators would help? IMO YT should put more humans to answer support issues, like you have an youtuber with 10 years of experience and a large number of viewers and you just stike him without a human looking? If the strike/block has a large impact then have a human check.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#63
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More data beats smarter algorithms any day, and TikTok gets a lot of data because its videos are so short and interaction rate so high. There are tons of signals it can use as inputs: How much of a video did you let play before swiping next? How many times did you let the video loop? Did you like? Did you comment? Did you like a comment? Did you click through to the profile? Did you view other videos from the profile…

I don't buy this argument. YouTube ostensibly has a metric ton of information like this and even if tiktok has more training data now, I'm fairly sure their training data in principle was smaller than what YouTube historically had given their decades long presence and their ubiquity in the internet. This is on top of the documented effort by YouTube to perfect their recommendation algorithm using the best ML minds th…

YouTube has the problem that all Google products have: they put you in a filter bubble which you can never get out of. The algorithm also optimises for more "long form" content and it's pretty well known that the optimum video length is around 10 mins.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#64
post #56

Not much of a reveal. What I find strange about TikTok are the waves of themes I get to see. Being a 50-something I'm probably not the target audience but at first all I saw was shuffle dance (enjoyed that) followed by Indian and Chinese manufacturing videos (loved those) and now it's all cats (okay with that). My daughters explained "Elite TikTok" and "Beans TikTok" so now I realize there's a whole world built on to…

The recommendation algorithm generally tries to avoid showing directly similar content. It's surprising it is all cats especially if you ever swipe. Perhaps this is an A-B test and you are in a group with lower boredom avoidance settings :) Can you explain a bit more about Elite TikTok? I found this article but it contains quite a jumble of ideas https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jun/22/what-is-elit...

These articles explain it a bit better but what it boils down to is that a group of kids create strange content around a theme (beans, frogs, etc.) and then try to go viral within their peer group, e.g. other kids that are too cool to like what everyone else likes. Impersonating real brands is also a big part of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/10/style/elite-tiktok.html

https://www.distractify.com/p/elite-tiktok-meaning

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#65
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this argument. YouTube ostensibly has a metric ton of information like this and even if tiktok has more training data now, I'm fairly sure their training data in principle was smaller than what YouTube historically had given their decades long presence and their ubiquity in the internet. This is on top of the documented effort by YouTube to perfect their recommendation algorithm using the best ML minds th…

YouTube has the problem that all Google products have: they put you in a filter bubble which you can never get out of. The algorithm also optimises for more "long form" content and it's pretty well known that the optimum video length is around 10 mins.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#66
post #8

It's a (seemingly) pretty simple matter of keeping track of how long someone looks at a video, and optimizing to show them videos they'll spend a long time looking at. It's pretty powerful too, I spend much more time looking at TikTok than any other digital content aggregator (to the extent I had to delete it from my phone). They also do some things like sprinkle in random fresh videos, potentially unrelated to your…

The idea to sprinkle in different videos is just for the algorithm that the bias is not more justified: You like X, i feed you only X, i learn that you absolutely love X.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#68

don't see how tiktok is so game changing? How long can one look at random dance videos? What demographic would maintain sustained interest over years? flavor of the month/year?

> flavor of the month/year?

Actually, yes. This particular generation will eventually grow out of TikTok like they did with other social networks at their peak of the hype cycle: Snapchat (2014), YikYak (2014), Vine (2015), Shots (2012) and SNOW (2016) etc.

TikTok is no different and yet another hype masterpiece for the record books and the news media. The new kids will find another one to replace it and suddenly it will be crowned as 'cool'.

Rinse and Repeat for another generation.

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#69
post #18
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say it’s more likely they have super advanced/clever ways of doing the latter. The algorithm could be a simple dot product and the result could be great or terrible depending on how good the feature extraction is. Pulling useful features out of videos is no small task. The fact that everyone raves about how good the recommendations are indicates to me that this is where their innovation lies.

There's so much good meta-data (likes, comments, duration, sound used, views, like/view ratio, skips, loops, subscribes, etc.) that I'd be surprised if they were digging into the contents of the video at all right now.

Almost all of those applies to YouTube, do they not ?

Re: TikTok reveals details of how its algorithm works

#70
post #8

It's a (seemingly) pretty simple matter of keeping track of how long someone looks at a video, and optimizing to show them videos they'll spend a long time looking at. It's pretty powerful too, I spend much more time looking at TikTok than any other digital content aggregator (to the extent I had to delete it from my phone). They also do some things like sprinkle in random fresh videos, potentially unrelated to your…

> they'll get paid directly from TikTok, rather than needing to source a third party company to sponsor them.

So like, what Adsense did to the internet and exactly what Youtube is trying to undo.

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