unix is also User Interface Independent, but unlike emacs, it's actually used on a wide variety of interfaces: Mainframes, microcontrollers, web servers, phones (touch screen) and PCs.
Pretty sure emacs is used on all of those
Emacs is special regarding UIs
51–60 of 418 posts
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#52Emacs and org-mode is frequently mentioned on HN as being awesome, but I don't feel like I could ever switch; I've got enough issues with vim already. For one, all the keyboard shortcuts and commands that you have to learn; I don't know if I have the capacity to learn all that anymore, not without deliberate practice, while in modern editors you can get by with keyboard + mouse and slowly learn some new shortcuts her…
I work daily in vim, emacs and idea (ideavim).
I use emacs for org-mode exclusively. You only need to learn the buffer manipulation and org-mode keybinds for this, and the configuration.
I use vim for ad-hoc text editing, it's a poor IDE as I've configured it.
I use IntelliJ IDEA with IdeaVim for writing code.
I do not consider myself superhuman. A notable fact is that at some point previously, I've used every one of these as my main development editor.
I couldn't imagine having to maintain configuration for IDE-style features in all three editors, so I won't bother, but I do bother using the best tool for the job.
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#53I can think of a few UI styles Emacs doesn't support (to my knowledge) – line mode terminals, block mode terminals (such as IBM 3270 and 5250), and HTML. Now, whether any of those UI styles are actually worth supporting is a completely different question. But it is not quite as universal in support of different UIs as this email claims. (You can technically write line mode applications in Emacs Lisp, try `emacs -batc…
Interesting ... has anybody tried a browser based (which is what I presume you mean by HTML) front end for emacs? EDIT - just to be clear, I'm talking about emacsclient, talking to a emacs server. Not an actual full blown emacs implementation that's just stupid.
I meant old-school pure HTML forms, not a HTML5 app with JavaScript+Canvas (or even wasm+Canvas). With the later, you could in principle compile GNU Emacs to JavaScript or wasm, using e.g. emscripten. (I don't know if anyone has succeeded in that yet, but I think it would be in principle achievable.)
Old-school pure HTML forms actually has a lot conceptually in common with block mode terminals such as IBM 3270. The server sends the client a fill-in-form, the user fills it in, the client sends it back to the server in one block. Most of the logic exists on the server (although some basic very basic validations may execute on the client). So, I was actually talking about serving up a classic pure HTML form app over HTTP as a UI style.
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#54One begins to understand the advantages of this approach after 10-15 years or so. I feel that I am constantly being forced into new "UI paradigms", and it isn't always a change for the better. I started with DOS (Norton Commander, anyone? to this day there is no comparable tool), then Windows 3.0 and 3.1 (which was mostly garbage and I did not enjoy the UI at all). I then started using Linux and discovered Emacs. Whe…
I really honestly don’t like X11. I’ve poked around in the source a couple times and it confuses and scares me. I love the idea of moving entirely to just one graphics API and keeping the server simple.
Until wayland has decent performance though I don’t think I’ll ever switch. None of the apps I use are native (except possibly Firefox and some EDA tools but only if gtk is set up right?)
I thought my new phone would change my mind but surprisingly wayland is way way slower than X11 on it (running native gtk apps.)
Do keep in mind though that modern X11 doesn’t really do remote applications either and many aren’t letting the server manage the scene graph /widgets anyway so remote rendering would be very slow.
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#55Emacs and org-mode is frequently mentioned on HN as being awesome, but I don't feel like I could ever switch; I've got enough issues with vim already. For one, all the keyboard shortcuts and commands that you have to learn; I don't know if I have the capacity to learn all that anymore, not without deliberate practice, while in modern editors you can get by with keyboard + mouse and slowly learn some new shortcuts her…
Pretend I have a crashing program and I want something better than the GDB repl and I don't want to import/create some project.
There's a lot of solutions for this but pretend I want to graphically step through, edit the code etc...
Emacs can do this quite well without any special hassle.
Just try using it as a debugger, when you're annoyed, search the web and you'll find your answer.
I'm not an emacs user so this is coming from a non koolaid drinker but I've been using it more and more for these special use cases
Maybe this is just as easy to do in, say, IntelliJ, I just feel like emacs will leave a cleaner footprint and have more sensible defaults.
So give emacs a try for debugging something (the Google-fu is GUD, grand unified debugger), it's not hard to use, the learning curve is pretty modest and you may be surprised by how sensible it is.
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting ... has anybody tried a browser based (which is what I presume you mean by HTML) front end for emacs? EDIT - just to be clear, I'm talking about emacsclient, talking to a emacs server. Not an actual full blown emacs implementation that's just stupid.
With the new Chrome filesystem API it should be possible to make a full browser implementation. Let's just hope they don't have annoying GDPR and other popups when you're trying to edit a file.
Let's hope the filesystem API does require user permission and that anyone building such a service follows the law.
You know that GDPR doesn't require pop ups unless the service is doing something that isn't otherwise lawful?
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#57One begins to understand the advantages of this approach after 10-15 years or so. I feel that I am constantly being forced into new "UI paradigms", and it isn't always a change for the better. I started with DOS (Norton Commander, anyone? to this day there is no comparable tool), then Windows 3.0 and 3.1 (which was mostly garbage and I did not enjoy the UI at all). I then started using Linux and discovered Emacs. Whe…
> Norton Commander, anyone? to this day there is no comparable tool Directory Opus. I've used it for nearly 30 years. First thing I install on Windows.
The MS-DOS version of XTree Gold was the best piece of software I used in the early 90s.
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#58Emacs and org-mode is frequently mentioned on HN as being awesome, but I don't feel like I could ever switch; I've got enough issues with vim already. For one, all the keyboard shortcuts and commands that you have to learn; I don't know if I have the capacity to learn all that anymore, not without deliberate practice, while in modern editors you can get by with keyboard + mouse and slowly learn some new shortcuts her…
They appeal to two different kinds of people. The first set (you and I) value the convenience of a job completed with a highly tuned and tested tool developed by word leaders in programming technology (Jetbrains). The other set of people wish to be able to tune things exactly as they wish, and focus on hyperoptimization of a set of known tasks that they become expert in.
Neither is wrong, but I do believe that when someone goes on about how if you just try hard enough to grok emacs, you will suddenly get it. Maybe. But I think there is an audience bias there, whereby only people who are inherently interested in tweaking and fiddling will achieve that benefit, and only people who wish to just get things done on a paid tool will be OK with using a mouse every so often. Horses for courses.
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#59Emacs + org has the potential to be the dream environment for everybody with a hacker mindset: Automate everything that has to do with text: Journaling, writing todo lists, parsing your Kindle highlights file (`My Clippings.txt'), writing project outlines, doing web research and saving your searches, notes, thoughts, summaries in Emacs via org-capture, drafting papers in org-mode, creating (text-based) tables and overviews, writing tech documentation with embedded screenshots, and many many more.
What ties all these notes and files together is Emacs Lisp: Write Lisp functions to automate most of what you do. - Previously I used Python for that, but Elisp is so much more fun to automate text-based workflows.
I would have to write a book to summarize all the ways this can transform your interactions and workflows with your computer and especially with everything text.
Edit:
After twenty years of using all sorts of text based databases and PIMs (AskSam, NetManages ECCOPro, various outliners, Outlook, Evernote, Omni{Focus,Outliner}, Bear Writer App, Ulysses App, and half a dozen other tools) I have come to realize that nothing beats Emacs + Org + Lisp.
Re: Emacs is special regarding UIs
#60Emacs + org has the potential to be the dream environment for everybody with a hacker mindset: Automate everything that has to do with text: Journaling, writing todo lists, parsing your Kindle highlights file (`My Clippings.txt'), writing project outlines, doing web research and saving your searches, notes, thoughts, summaries in Emacs via org-capture, drafting papers in org-mode, creating (text-based) tables and ove…
I hate org.
I use emacs 25/7, I hate org.
Something about it rubs me the wrong way, yet I use it but only the basic parts. I think it's that I can't wrap my head around the mental model of it, and since it encompasses 2000 topics (trees, timing, workflow, states, agenda, journaling, tagging) it's like a mountain of mud before my eyes.