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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#381

Post by chj »

drenvuk wrote: post #260

I don't get why on Hackernews anyone would ever defend Apple here. Regardless of whether they're right to do this if Epic wins their court case against them we stand to gain the most benefit. Apple's incredibly high walled garden is honestly the scariest thing for me. If I develop for windows I can simply distribute my application on my site easily. With Android I can tell people to download from F-Droid if necessary…

I was confused too, then I tried to picture them as AAPL holders, and it makes me feel more comfortable ever since.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#382

Post by nodamage »

aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

> And the EU will levy the world's biggest fine at Apple, I predict north of $5 billion if not $10 billion for abusing their status with this being a notable case.

Apple only has ~25% market share in the EU. Their "status" is as the minority player in the market. It's questionable whether this is high enough to violate EU antitrust laws, which have usually required at least 40% to show market dominance.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#383

Post by viraptor »

FractalParadigm wrote: post #331
gorkish wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they could; but I find it kind of hard to criticize their strategy of getting a hundred million people to commiserate with them before they try. Even better that Apple has decided to act like a big ugly baby about it; they must be over the moon. I've owned and used Apple products continuously for over 30 years, and I'm not ashamed to say that I am rooting HARD for Epic on this. Apple doesn't give a shit about in…

> Apple doesn't give a shit about innovation when they are making money hand over fist It's crazy but I didn't even notice this paradigm shift until they announced their credit card. Apple used to be the company to push boundaries and revolutionize computing in some way every few years. The last real "innovation" I feel Apple has come up with was the Retina display, pushing OEMs everywhere towards higher pixel counts…

> to USB and WiFi brought to the mainstream

Not sure what you mean here. USB was used everywhere and around the time iPhone launched, microusb was used by a large portion of new phones. Apple is pretty much the only actively USB-avoiding company left. They still use a proprietary connection for their devices.

They certainly sped up the wifi on mobile trend, but I would argue with bringing it to the mainstream.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#384

Post by dbxgiri »

cr3ative wrote: post #358
dbxgiri wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you find my blog post as "ramblings", then how come you come to the conclusion that I have "absolutely no claim"? This man is a credible person in NANOG. He completed my paper and started to defend me there. https://www.mail-archive.com/nanog@nanog.org/msg99136.html Which is why Apple engineers started to read my paper in Feb 2019 and "sign in with apple" ready by June 2019. Have you ever thought about it the othe…

Sorry, let me clarify; your ramblings contain no _valid_ claim. Your link to NANOG (incidentally, the wrong forum for your queries) does not contain any defense of your "Sign in with Apple" ramble, it's for something unrelated which appears to be you trying to invent antispam methods. Your post is not of a technical nature and there is no merit to your claims that Apple copied you. It is all hearsay with no proof of…

What Apple selling as "Sign in with Apple" is one of the "tool" I created to fix email spam. It is very much related. This is the problem of throwing arguments without understanding the context. If you had gone through that blog post and read the section "what is the real invention" carefully, then you would understand how "sign in with apple" system is very much related to my antispam methods.

I added some more info in an other comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24425853

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#385

Post by moksly »

aclelland wrote: post #35
sandstrom wrote: post #2

Alright, so Apple are forcing all developers to add Sign-in with Apple (if they have other third-party login services), privacy benefits aside. But if you Apple decide that they don't like you anymore, they'll not only cut you off the App Store, they'll also bury all (or a subset of) your users. Apple is starting to act more and more like a bully. [1] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#sig...

It also shows that Apple really don't care about their customers and would rather stick it to Epic than continue to support the people who choose to use their login system. If Apple wanted to show some goodwill towards the end users who were caught up in this mess they'd continue to allow them to log in or provide a migration path. I wonder if this will be used against Apple in the future since it's clearly hurting p…

I think you’re vastly underrating the seriousness in which a company like Apple would treat this matter. They aren’t a petty child or a bully. They’re a company, and their market research likely show them that the key advantage they have over Android is their closed, easy to use and secure ecosystem.

If Epic succeeds in breaking that, they’ll lose a lot more than 30% of the 20 ish millions a month that Epic is currently losing on this ordeal.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#386

Post by viraptor »

dmitriid wrote: post #323
gorkish wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they could; but I find it kind of hard to criticize their strategy of getting a hundred million people to commiserate with them before they try. Even better that Apple has decided to act like a big ugly baby about it; they must be over the moon. I've owned and used Apple products continuously for over 30 years, and I'm not ashamed to say that I am rooting HARD for Epic on this. Apple doesn't give a shit about in…

> Even better that Apple has decided to act like a big ugly baby about it You mean, Apple, like any grown-up company would do in their place, has rightfully shown Epic the door? Google kicked Fortnite from Play Store for the same reason. And had they tried this against consoles (where devs also pay 30%), they'd be kicked out of the respective console forever. What's a "non-cry-baby" reaction in your opinion?

Blocking the new release and blocking the version which allowed out of ecosystem payments. That's it. It's not like Apple gains anything from further actions.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#387

Post by jonny_eh »

oefrha wrote: post #114
bmarquez wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy Nobody is fighting for the little guy, but this is still advantageous for the consumer. Apple is even fighting with Facebook, since you are forbidden to disclose the 30% cut with consumers.

If Epic’s PC store is any indication, consumers will eventually have to face bullshit exclusives that force them to use the Epic store and largely cost the exact same.

> bullshit exclusives

Who cares if you have to open a different megacorp's launcher?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#388

Post by jfim »

kirykl wrote: post #376
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

This applies to any business that operates a store, and a business that sells a product within that store. Replace software with retail in your example, it doesn't sound so abnormal "Walmart can, at will, remove your entire line of potato chips from your (their) customers and your existance in their stores is just gone."

Sure, but at the same time one could sell their product in different stores, or even D2C online.

The store analogy also has very limited switching costs, for example if Walmart stops selling brand X of potato chips, it's inconvenient but not impractical to go out of one's way to buy them at Target. It would be different if buying potato chips at Target would involve throwing out everything one has bought at Walmart and buying the same Target-equivalent merchandise (ie. switching from iPhone to Android, one would need to buy equivalent apps).

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#389

Post by coldtea »

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #335
coldtea wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple hardware has always been more about being a status symbol then utility. Citation needed. Even Linus Torvalds had used several pieces of Apple hardware (iBook, G5, Macbook Air)... Perhaps he was in search of "status" too?

there are a few nerds here and there that actually prefer the weird Unix/BSD that Mac OS X is based on but theres no way Linus Torvalds is using the normie focused MacOS Big Sur and the current environment Apple used to support freedom in programming and use of the computer. That has not been the case anytime recently, they've taken the prison system of iOS and slowly implemented it on 'macOS'

>there are a few nerds here and there that actually prefer the weird Unix/BSD that Mac OS X is based on

macOS as well as Apple hardware is not just used by "a few nerds here and there". It's used by a very good chunk of devs in any conference (be it Apple, Rails, JS, Python, Data science, whatever), and by a majority of speakers in said conferences (so tons of top tier "nerds" - your words).

>there are a few nerds here and there that actually prefer the weird Unix/BSD that Mac OS X is based on but theres no way Linus Torvalds is using the normie focused MacOS Big Sur and the current environment

He is not, he used Linux on his G5 and Macbook Air, and used macOS (of yore) on his iBook (on which he wrote his autobiography, in MS Word nonetheless).

But the comment I replied to was that "Apple hardware has always been more about being a status symbol then utility". This spins it to the software.

Did Linus need Apple hardware as a status symbol?

Because in his own words, he had e.g. praised the Macbook Air as a great example of a sturdy, small, and silent laptop, that no PC maker compete with (at least at the time he used it).

Also the term "normies" is beyond immature. What is this, 4chan?

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