Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 638 posts

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#371

Post by bmarquez »

scarface74 wrote: post #290
bmarquez wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy Nobody is fighting for the little guy, but this is still advantageous for the consumer. Apple is even fighting with Facebook, since you are forbidden to disclose the 30% cut with consumers.

Name one retailer who would let me sell in their store and advertise either that you can buy it somewhere cheaper or allow me to tell the consumer what the retailer’s markup is - in their store?

Arizona Iced Tea...haven't bought it lately but they used to put 99 cents on the packaging. In some places like liquor stores, I've seen it sold for over 99 cents.

Also, the comparison between Apple and retail isn't fair. If Walmart doesn't want your product, you can sell to Target. If Apple doesn't want your software product, you have no alternative.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#372

Post by sjy »

qppo wrote: post #147
joshstrange wrote: post #14

It's always interesting to read the comments on articles about the Epic Games situation. We can have discussions about Apple's cut or how Apple operates their store but this is such a clear cut case that I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic (or maybe it's just the anti-Apple crowd looking for any reason to crap on Apple). Epic tried to get Apple to allow a whole new store on their platform A…

I guess it's not clear cut if this comes down to whether or not vertical integration is beneficial to consumers in this case. The courts aren't going to decide this case based on who is fighting for "the little guy" but whether the anti-competitive actions taken by Apple constitute a violation of civil or corporate law. > I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic I'm not. If my only use case for…

All other things being equal (and I take it your point is that they might not be), lower fees are generally considered an improvement by the developers and users who pay the fees.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#373

Post by ribosometronome »

withinboredom wrote: post #271
giovannibajo1 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that people would follow YouTube videos that promise CRACKED SPOTIFY to change that choice so that they can download a copy of a cracked version of Spotify filled with malware. That in turns reflects badly with Apple because it would be assumed that the platform is not secured and cannot be trusted with private / sensitive data (both in B2C and B2B settings). If anything, I think we should at least agree…

> I think we should at least agree that it’s Apple’s choice whether run this risk or not on their own product It's not "their" product. It's mine, I purchased a license to use their software on my hardware. I'm not beholden to continue using their software

It is your iPhone. And you can sideload apps onto the iPhone, for free, using a number of different non-jailbreak but still PITA options.

The App Store, however, is their store.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#374

Post by scarface74 »

bmarquez wrote: post #371
scarface74 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one retailer who would let me sell in their store and advertise either that you can buy it somewhere cheaper or allow me to tell the consumer what the retailer’s markup is - in their store?

Arizona Iced Tea...haven't bought it lately but they used to put 99 cents on the packaging. In some places like liquor stores, I've seen it sold for over 99 cents. Also, the comparison between Apple and retail isn't fair. If Walmart doesn't want your product, you can sell to Target. If Apple doesn't want your software product, you have no alternative.

Now try that in Walmart, GameStop, Best Buy, or any other major retailer. Have you also noticed that the same goods even where it is allowed is sometimes marked at a different price? Do you think that the marked price does not already include the retailers markup?

Sure you have an alternative - Android.

Just like back in the day, Nintendo refused to allow certain types of games.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#375

Post by SergeAx »

mvanbaak wrote: post #281
SergeAx wrote: post #236

So, for app developers, there's no feasible strategy out of it. Apps need social login, disabling it at all is out of the question. Implementing any social login means implement login with Apple ID (and following desing guidelines), or app will not pass review. By default, login with Apple gives a bogus email not connected to anything, so there's no way to send there a random password "just in case Apple want to kick…

The flaw in your comment is: "just in case Apple want to kick us out" If you simply decide to break the terms of your contract with them, yes, they will kick you out. But this is not 'in case Apple wants'. It's because the developer wants to break contract.

Tell that to the author of HN reader app, which was twice rejected for not applying censorship inside his app [0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#376

Post by kirykl »

aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

This applies to any business that operates a store, and a business that sells a product within that store.

Replace software with retail in your example, it doesn't sound so abnormal

"Walmart can, at will, remove your entire line of potato chips from your (their) customers and your existance in their stores is just gone."

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#377

Post by abc-xyz »

pacifika wrote: post #287
joshstrange wrote: post #14

It's always interesting to read the comments on articles about the Epic Games situation. We can have discussions about Apple's cut or how Apple operates their store but this is such a clear cut case that I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic (or maybe it's just the anti-Apple crowd looking for any reason to crap on Apple). Epic tried to get Apple to allow a whole new store on their platform A…

> I think a lot of people are overlooking the value that the App Store and the iOS platform as whole provides. The value would be obvious if an alternative was available to contrast with.

The alternatives are all the other platforms that allow third-party app installations/stores, such as Windows, Android and OSX, all of which have a huge problem with malware.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#378

Post by Razengan »

fxtentacle wrote: post #205
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

I can't help but think that the whole thing is playing out exactly like Epic had hoped. After Apple kicked Fortnite from the iOS store, there was an outcry of people who had previously spent money on it through Apple's in-app purchases and now wanted a refund. Some of those users switched to playing Fortnite on a laptop or Android phone instead, but of course they were still using Sign in with Apple if they had origi…

> I can't help but think that the whole thing is playing out exactly like Epic had hoped.

It seems to be hurting them more than Apple: Epic Games Asks Court to Allow Fortnite Back on the App Store: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/09/05/epic-injuction-fortnite...

> Meanwhile, Epic now has a very good reason to collect a working email address from every past iOS customer

One of the biggest reason I love using Sign-In With Apple is so that I don't have to give my email to any one else.

All of the other news, like hampering advertisers, is good for users but bad for companies and developers who like to prey on users.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#379

Post by jakebasile »

losingthefight wrote: post #366
lolsal wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic caused their own pain here, sure but What other way can we actually get a semi open platform that we're not being taxed on? As an Apple user, the whole point here is that it's not an open system. I just can't get riled up over a developer not following the rules of a platform. I use Apple because the Apple ecosystem is valuable to me - the store, the SSO, the Apple ID, the UI/UX, the hardware - all of it. I do…

I see this argument a lot, and I think it's fine if not a tad flawed. If that's what you want, you can keep it. I don't really see anyone saying "kill the review process" and "open everything by default". This would all go away if Apple simply made it a setting to allow other IPAs AND allowed outside payment / subscription management. Keep the garden if you want it. Don't enable outside installs. If you don't want to…

That's not how it would work though. You'd see things similar to what Epic themselves did on Android originally, where they required people who wanted to play Fortnite to download the APK directly from Epic, which of course led to hundreds of fake and infected apps on the net, harming users.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#380

Post by SergeAx »

badwolf wrote: post #282
SergeAx wrote: post #236

So, for app developers, there's no feasible strategy out of it. Apps need social login, disabling it at all is out of the question. Implementing any social login means implement login with Apple ID (and following desing guidelines), or app will not pass review. By default, login with Apple gives a bogus email not connected to anything, so there's no way to send there a random password "just in case Apple want to kick…

Apps don't HAVE to have social login.

Yes, they don't, but omitting it will greatly increase signups friction, which means less registered users, less retention and less revenue at the end of the day.
Post reply on HN