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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#281

Post by mvanbaak »

SergeAx wrote: post #236

So, for app developers, there's no feasible strategy out of it. Apps need social login, disabling it at all is out of the question. Implementing any social login means implement login with Apple ID (and following desing guidelines), or app will not pass review. By default, login with Apple gives a bogus email not connected to anything, so there's no way to send there a random password "just in case Apple want to kick…

The flaw in your comment is: "just in case Apple want to kick us out"

If you simply decide to break the terms of your contract with them, yes, they will kick you out. But this is not 'in case Apple wants'. It's because the developer wants to break contract.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#282

Post by badwolf »

SergeAx wrote: post #236

So, for app developers, there's no feasible strategy out of it. Apps need social login, disabling it at all is out of the question. Implementing any social login means implement login with Apple ID (and following desing guidelines), or app will not pass review. By default, login with Apple gives a bogus email not connected to anything, so there's no way to send there a random password "just in case Apple want to kick…

Apps don't HAVE to have social login.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#283

Post by m3kw9 »

drenvuk wrote: post #260

I don't get why on Hackernews anyone would ever defend Apple here. Regardless of whether they're right to do this if Epic wins their court case against them we stand to gain the most benefit. Apple's incredibly high walled garden is honestly the scariest thing for me. If I develop for windows I can simply distribute my application on my site easily. With Android I can tell people to download from F-Droid if necessary…

Closed platforms have their disadvantages and advantages for user and devs. I want to see Apple win because they created this whole thing and always had the 30/70 till someone with a stink eye thinks they are making too much.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#284

Post by badwolf »

bmarquez wrote: post #11

This just makes it risky for the consumer to rely on 'Sign in with Apple', especially for cross-platform applications. I found it extremely convenient especially from a privacy perspective (your name and email are hidden) but the risk I'll lose access to my accounts is too much.

Same with 'Sign in with Facebook'

If Facebook blocks your developer account (Had this happen to my company once) your users can no longer sign in - though are they really your users at that point, or are they (Facebook/Google/Apple/etc...)

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#285

Post by dbxgiri »

syspec wrote: post #256
dbxgiri wrote: post #164

I'm the guy who created the ORIGINAL system what Apple selling as "Sign in with Apple". [My system uses the industry standards like OAuth2. Apple ditched OAuth2 just to steal my work] This EPIC GAMES ban isn't "personal" as you all think. If Apple don't ban "Sign in with Apple" for epic games, then Apple is very much screwed. That's because I wrote the patent claim in such a way. This is my patent claim: https://www.…

> The following table describes the list of ideas copied from the paper I published. For the sake of clarity, I published my white paper in February 2019. Apple released "Sign in with Apple" in June 2019. So they copied it and released it, in 3 months?

Yes, they have enough resources for that. "Sign in with Apple" is a very simple system.

This is what I sent to Tim Cook on June 06, 2019

https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/1.png

The very next day, techcrunch published this article.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/07/answers-to-your-burning-qu...

Question 4 and 9 reveals how they are stealing my work. I actually lied about the patent filing date in the mail I sent to Tim Cook. Once you file the patent you cannot add new content. That's why they boldly published that techcrunch post.

I lied about the patent date because I sensed Apple looking at my iCloud files without my permission and I was right. This is what I had in Apple's iCloud.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1v5i9cymts1lgi/Screenshot_2020-07...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e26gsw47skhd1cq/Screenshot_2020-07...

That's why they bought it when I told them "I filed the patent in 2018". I filed only the provisional patent application. I fixed most of the technical loopholes after that.

This is what I had in my white paper. https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/spapi3.png

My white paper says "javascript-only". Apple stole it using the word "Javascript-based". Please see Techcrunch question number 4.

https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/149.jpg

My white paper says "e.g. Signup Forms, Facebook Connect , Google Connect etc.".

Apple stole that with this excuse. "Note that Apple is not saying “social” login though. It’s saying “third-party,” which is more encompassing.". I.e. They categorized "Facebook Connect , Google Connect" as "Social Login" buttons to steal it. Please see Techcrunch question number 9.

On June 10, 2019, an Apple lawyer replied to me.

https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/2a.png

https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/2b.jpg

https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/2c.jpg

You can clearly see he goes like "possibly because the patent office yet has to publish it". That's because he bought what I sold.

If you pay attention to his response he goes like "Apple's products or marketing strategies might seem similar".

If you take a closer look at the mail I sent to Tim Cook, you can see that I never mentioned anything about "Strategy". They are stealing both my product as well as strategy. That's why he explicitly mentioned the word "strategy" to convince me.

For the record, they didn't release the product on June 3, 2019. They only announced it at that time. It took them few more months.

This message is the one why Apple went through my 300 page paper. https://www.mail-archive.com/nanog@nanog.org/msg99136.html [see the date]

Apple realised I fixed the technical loopholes. After that they started to cover their asses.

For example by wording their terms like this. https://www.domboxmail.com/assets/images/apple/prohibited.pn...

They also changed the company type to a "limited liability" company and notified all developers. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ovamzqp5jw7zjgn/2020-09-07_02-36-2...

They notified the developers on Feb 18, 2019 which is one week before my international patent application publication. My WIPO application got published on Feb 27, 2020. https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/4a/55/1b/2188ba0...

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#286

Post by m3kw9 »

mvanbaak wrote: post #281
SergeAx wrote: post #236

So, for app developers, there's no feasible strategy out of it. Apps need social login, disabling it at all is out of the question. Implementing any social login means implement login with Apple ID (and following desing guidelines), or app will not pass review. By default, login with Apple gives a bogus email not connected to anything, so there's no way to send there a random password "just in case Apple want to kick…

The flaw in your comment is: "just in case Apple want to kick us out" If you simply decide to break the terms of your contract with them, yes, they will kick you out. But this is not 'in case Apple wants'. It's because the developer wants to break contract.

The “if Apple wants..” is a line of argument many are making here. To me Epic is disgusting in trying to pose as a saviour, but at the end for them is about more money.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#287

Post by pacifika »

joshstrange wrote: post #14

It's always interesting to read the comments on articles about the Epic Games situation. We can have discussions about Apple's cut or how Apple operates their store but this is such a clear cut case that I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic (or maybe it's just the anti-Apple crowd looking for any reason to crap on Apple). Epic tried to get Apple to allow a whole new store on their platform A…

> I think a lot of people are overlooking the value that the App Store and the iOS platform as whole provides.

The value would be obvious if an alternative was available to contrast with.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#288

Post by jmull »

danShumway wrote: post #64
smnrchrds wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy So many people say "oh, Epic is not the underdog. They are a huge corporation themselves. They do not deserve my sympathy." As if they don't support this case, but would have supported it if it was brought by a small independent developer. As if it is morally wrong to support the case because it has been filed by a big company. But guess what, only a multi-billion dollar corpo…

I've commented to the same effect at least 2 or 3 times over the duration of this lawsuit, but just to keep repeating: if you get too picky about who is and isn't allowed to advocate for you, eventually everyone will stop advocating for you. A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. This stuff is important, and advocates for user-freedom and device ownership can't afford to put every company t…

> if you get too picky about who is and isn't allowed to advocate for you, eventually everyone will stop advocating for you

Epic is not advocating for you. Epic’s strategy is to get you to think they are, but they aren’t.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#289

Post by m3kw9 »

hienyimba wrote: post #55

A petty move like this clearly shows that Apple as a company has nothing valuable to offer developers. Shutting down "sign in" options shows that internally, Apple is looking for a way to hurt Epic in a manner that hurts the most but they are coming up short. Although iOS accounts for over one-thirds of Fortnite's 360million users, Epic has already made the brave decision to let that portion of revenue go and nothing…

Correction: nothing to offer to developers that breaks the terms in such purposeful way. Completely premeditated move from Epic deserve exactly what Epic expects

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#290

Post by scarface74 »

bmarquez wrote: post #26
joshstrange wrote: post #14

It's always interesting to read the comments on articles about the Epic Games situation. We can have discussions about Apple's cut or how Apple operates their store but this is such a clear cut case that I'm honestly surprised so many HN readers are siding with Epic (or maybe it's just the anti-Apple crowd looking for any reason to crap on Apple). Epic tried to get Apple to allow a whole new store on their platform A…

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy Nobody is fighting for the little guy, but this is still advantageous for the consumer. Apple is even fighting with Facebook, since you are forbidden to disclose the 30% cut with consumers.

Name one retailer who would let me sell in their store and advertise either that you can buy it somewhere cheaper or allow me to tell the consumer what the retailer’s markup is - in their store?
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