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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#171

Post by Rebelgecko »

oefrha wrote: post #114
bmarquez wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy Nobody is fighting for the little guy, but this is still advantageous for the consumer. Apple is even fighting with Facebook, since you are forbidden to disclose the 30% cut with consumers.

If Epic’s PC store is any indication, consumers will eventually have to face bullshit exclusives that force them to use the Epic store and largely cost the exact same.

I don't see that as a downside to Epic . Some games on their storefront are exclusives and ones that are available elsewhere often have the same price?*

Isn't that an argument to get rid of the App store? EVERY game there is exclusive- there's no other way to buy it for iOS. And it's a bit tautological, but games on the App Store will never be able to undercut prices of competing stores on the platform because there aren't any.

*btw I don't totally agree with the implication. Even though many games cost the same as Steam, many of them also don't. Even if only a subset of games is cheaper on Epic, that's a win for consumers.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#172

Post by jl6 »

hello_tyler wrote: post #122
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

They broke the TOS on purpose and are now crying about that Apple actually held the line. I think Apple is way overpriced too, but when you go into their ecosystem and profit on it - you have to play by the rules. If you break the rules, you get removed. I would expect the same treatment on any app store.

It’s OK to insist on players sticking to the rules, but Apple is no longer a player - it’s the game.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#173

Post by newacct583 »

jmpman wrote: post #25
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.

> Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch.

I don't believe any of those vendors take anything close to 30% of in-game revenue. And the reason is they compete with each other, quite vigorously, for the same set of users looking for the same set of products (consoles and games).

> or classify iOS as somehow different...

Right, because Apple is leveraging their dominance of an external market (high end mobile phones) to control pricing in the game market that "should" be more akin to consoles. But it demonstrably isn't. And that is a problem.

If you want to argue here, the proper argument is that iOS isn't a monopoly (and that Google charges similar fees). But don't argue that it's the same as a console, that just doesn't make sense.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#174

Post by DonaldPShimoda »

hienyimba wrote: post #55

A petty move like this clearly shows that Apple as a company has nothing valuable to offer developers. Shutting down "sign in" options shows that internally, Apple is looking for a way to hurt Epic in a manner that hurts the most but they are coming up short. Although iOS accounts for over one-thirds of Fortnite's 360million users, Epic has already made the brave decision to let that portion of revenue go and nothing…

I don't think this is a specific targeted thing. It just comes with the general deactivation of the Epic account. It's the same as the whole "Apple is banning all apps made with Unreal Engine!" which was a poor take on the issue. (What actually happened was Apple un-approved Epic's license, which had a cascading effect because Unreal Engine was signed under the same license, and so software dependent on Unreal Engine became no longer signed and thus was not going to be allowed on the App Store.)

I'm not saying Apple's in the right here, but people keep construing it as Apple "looking for way[s] to hurt Epic" and I don't think that's quite what's going on. Epic performed a significant breach of the App Store terms in a way never tried before, and the repercussions (which are detailed in those terms!) are being enforced on a scale never seen before. But it's not like Apple's execs are scouring, looking for minute and petty ways to hurt Epic. They're just going to let the lawsuit run its course, and in the meantime enforce the terms of the agreement (willingly broken by Epic) to the fullest capacity.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#175

Post by iJohnDoe »

Not sure if this has been mentioned in other threads yet -

The Fortnite iOS app is critical even if you don’t play Fortnite on iOS. The app has the team voice feature so you can talk to teammates while playing Fortnite.

Everyone in your party can be playing on different devices (Xbox, PS4, etc.). If you open the iOS app then you can transfer the party voice to an iPhone. The sound is really clear and you can use your headphones or AirPods to talk and listen.

I’m sure some will be pissed if they lost access to that.

If you deleted the app or bought a new iOS device, can you still install Fortnite from previous purchases?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#176

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

judge2020 wrote: post #146
foota wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe epic's point is that they believe the ToS to be illegal.

That's exactly what they're fighting. Surely Epic winning will mean a court order to reinstate Fortnite and other of Epic's games onto the App Store. They should have sued and never have done their "pay direct" thing if they wanted to stay operational on Apple platforms during the lawsuit. Apple couldn't retaliate at that point since any termination attempt would be reversed by a court order.

> They should have sued and never have done their "pay direct" thing

If they did that, any court hearing the lawsuit would throw it out because Epic would not have standing. Epic had to do it this way to have any hope of a court hearing their case.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#177

Post by Rebelgecko »

Talyen42 wrote: post #161
supernovae wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Microsoft, they denied the Xbox gaming app on the store after it had already been going through wide beta use on ios. They denied it on the grounds that they need to review every xbox game. Which is nonsense. They don't review every netflix movie, they don't review every spotify song, they don't review other content. The app that was denied doesn't actually download the games either, its a remote/onlin…

Games can have stores, marketplaces, platforms, and other arbitrary interactive stuff running inside of them, whereas movies and songs are more or less functionally identical in technical capability (although it would be funny if Netflix put a subscribe button inside a free movie to bypass Apple!) Amazon didn't cut a deal, you can't subscribe to prime video in the app without using Apple's IAP payment system. You can…

>Amazon didn't cut a deal

Most developers who use Apple IAPs gave to give Apple a 30% cut. Amazon only gives apple a 15% cut. How is that not a deal?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#178

Post by gpm »

fooey wrote: post #163
gpm wrote: post #36

Apple is doing it's absolute best to allow Epic to demonstrate irreparable harm in their motion for a preliminary injunction... This is a curious decision considering that the primary distinction between the part of the temporary restraining order the court granted (against Apple interfering with unreal engine) and the part the court denied (against Apple interfering with fortnite) was that the court thought that Epi…

The judge ruled there is no irreparable harm because it's trivial for Epic themselves to repair the harm at any time that they themselves caused.

*because it was trivial for Epic to return the situation to the status quo. The court was very much not making statements about harm in general (that's just not what happens at this phase of litigation).

Apple is moving the situation farther from the status quo... which strikes me as a very bad legal strategy when the ruling for them was based on the idea that maintaining the status quo did not cause irreparable harm.

I expect the judge is going to have some serious questions about whether this action is in response to them violating the terms of service (status quo as I believe the judge is interpreting the phrase), or if it's about retaliating against the lawsuit [1]. Novel punitive actions using services that aren't directly related don't strike me as business as usual.

[1] Unless the court rules in some way that makes the whole question moot. We shouldn't read too much into how the court ruled on the TRO.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#179

Post by HideousKojima »

judge2020 wrote: post #146
foota wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe epic's point is that they believe the ToS to be illegal.

That's exactly what they're fighting. Surely Epic winning will mean a court order to reinstate Fortnite and other of Epic's games onto the App Store. They should have sued and never have done their "pay direct" thing if they wanted to stay operational on Apple platforms during the lawsuit. Apple couldn't retaliate at that point since any termination attempt would be reversed by a court order.

>They should have sued and never have done their "pay direct" thing if they wanted to stay operational on Apple platforms during the lawsuit.

That would have made the chances of the lawsuit being thrown out over BS standing issues much higher

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#180

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

pbalau wrote: post #168
foota wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe epic's point is that they believe the ToS to be illegal.

You should never fight the law, you should fight to change the law.

"I Fought The Law and the Law Won" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL8chWFuM-s
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