Live data from Hacker News

Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

syfy.com

71–80 of 252 posts

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#71
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, 13 billion years is the age of the universe. The observable universe is a sphere with a diameter of ~93 billion light years (And is likely to only be a subset of the entire universe).

I have a question: Just over 20 years ago when the accepted view was that the expansion of the universe was slowing down, would you have backed that position with as much certainty as you are backing this one? That the universe is a mere 13.7 billion years old? We cannot prove the absence of light in a place that is already so far away that it's light will never reach us. Do you agree? We can prove what we can observ…

> Just over 20 years ago when the accepted view was that the expansion of the universe was slowing down

Was it ever a mainstream view? I thought it was just a conjecture, leading to the 'big crush', and was disproven long ago, way more than 2 decades ago.

> The entire premise of dating our universe is based on its observed rate of expansion

Also there's the cosmic microwave background radiation. We have mapped it, and this has also allowed us to corroborate when the universe has formed, what temperature it had, and when large scale structures appeared.

There's probably other sources that allows us to estimate the age of the universe.

> how can anyone be sure that it was the first and only Big Bang?

We can't. But it is an irrelevant conjecture outside of philosophy, we can't observe anything before the big bang.

> but in fact it's more likely that many Pangea's have come and gone in various states as the planet roils on

Sure, but that's a planet. We can't extrapolate much from that and apply to the universe at large.

> Perhaps the Big Bang was merely a "localized" event and there are Big Bangs occuring in distant places whose light will never reach us

Unobservable, therefore unfalsifiable, therefore unscientific. Philosophy again.

> imagine that the universe has already been through a near infinite number of Big Bang / Big Crunch cycles

Unless the rate of expansion starts to slow down or we have indication that it will ever reverse, there's no big crunch. The rate of expansion is increasing

> currently accepted theory is akin to believing that the Earth is the center of the universe and the sun revolves around us

Not really. You are dismissing generations of people dedicated to the study of these things. We have a pretty good idea of what's going on based on the scientific method, not conjectures from single individuals.

There are things that we don't know yet. On a macroscopic scale, dark matter. Things don't really behave as they should based on observations, so this is why we have dark matter as a hypothesis. There could be another mechanism, research is ongoing. But as far as the macro universe goes, that's the major thing we don't understand yet.

Most discoveries will likely come from a better understanding of the 'building blocks', of which quantum physics is at the forefront.

There's probably much more we don't know yet. But the age of the universe, as we observe it, is not among them.

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#72
post #61
post #2

Nice gravitational lens observation! We're hoping to use the same technique with the Sun to observe exoplanets by launching a fleet of small satellites to 547 AU (80 billion km / ~3 light days). The craft would sample the distorted Einstein ring around our Sun from that vantage point, then combine and reconstruct an image of the disk of an Earth-like exoplanet up to 100 light-years beyond, at a resolution of 25 kilom…

How do you propose to power a fleet of spacecraft at 550AU? Would you be able to acquire enough RTGs? What about DSN time for the downlink?

And how would you get them out to, and stop at, 550 AU? Voyager 1 and 2 are nuclear powered with RTGs and they are respectively about 150 AU and 125 AU from the sun, and they are going really fast. The Voyager RTGs are also fairly depleted at this point. I’m guessing these spacecraft would need a faster, more efficient mode of propulsion, like a nuclear thruster or ion drive (or Epstein drive?!). One could also get a lot more fuel for the journey if the the probes didn’t have to launch fully fueled from the Earth’s surface.

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#73

All right hackernews. Genuine question, not sure where else to ask. If galaxies and stars at the other “end” formed out of matter resulting from the big bang, just as the matter we are made of, how did we get here at the same time that that matter got there? Is it because speeds faster than light are possible, and around the big bang all matter was spread near instantly at that speed? I don't understand how matter of…

To give you specific terms to research on, in cosmology this is called the "horizon problem" or the "homogeneity problem," basically put as "Why is the stuff over there so similar to the stuff right here when they're so far away? They ought to be causally disconnected by distance!"

The answer to this in the early universe is called inflation, which you can tag onto Alan Guth around 1981 or so. It involves spacetime itself stretching. Originally, everything was nearby and so it was all evened out -- about the same temperature, density, and so on, then it just gets pulled apart and "writ large" in a twinkling.

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#74
post #59

All right hackernews. Genuine question, not sure where else to ask. If galaxies and stars at the other “end” formed out of matter resulting from the big bang, just as the matter we are made of, how did we get here at the same time that that matter got there? Is it because speeds faster than light are possible, and around the big bang all matter was spread near instantly at that speed? I don't understand how matter of…

this is because things aren’t ‘moving apart’— space itself is expanding (into what? nobody knows). it’s not that the galaxies are being propelled apart from a force in a particular place either; everything is expanding away from everything else . On the traditional balloon model, the surface of the balloon represents space itself. Those dots on the surface of an expanding balloon are not moving relative to space (the…

Sorry for also asking a space 101 question, but since the fabric of space is expanding, does that mean that things are getting bigger as well? Naively, it would seem that way. In your balloon example, the dots would get bigger.

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#75
post #42
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a reference to Douglas Adams' absurdist Sci Fi series, "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," which is amazing and I recommend everyone read! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13.The_Ultimate_Hitchhik... (The first book is "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," there are 5 books, one of which is titled "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe")

It bugs me that no one realizes that the “end” refers not to the “edge” but at the closing of the universe - the restaurant is in a frozen time bubble that can watch the universe end.

Yes. The Restaurant is at the "end" in the time dimension, not the spatial dimension.

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#76
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is because things aren’t ‘moving apart’— space itself is expanding (into what? nobody knows). it’s not that the galaxies are being propelled apart from a force in a particular place either; everything is expanding away from everything else . On the traditional balloon model, the surface of the balloon represents space itself. Those dots on the surface of an expanding balloon are not moving relative to space (the…

>"space itself is expanding (into what? nobody knows)" I have a terrifying theory on this (granted, the Earth will be long gone). What if the universe is not actually expanding in the sense that it is being propelled by an initial explosion, but instead falling towards a much greater mass - the end of time so to speak, where all mass ends. Considering that gravity is a "weak force", the scale of such a mass makes me…

Isn't this basically what the Big Rip hypothesis is about?

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#77
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is because things aren’t ‘moving apart’— space itself is expanding (into what? nobody knows). it’s not that the galaxies are being propelled apart from a force in a particular place either; everything is expanding away from everything else . On the traditional balloon model, the surface of the balloon represents space itself. Those dots on the surface of an expanding balloon are not moving relative to space (the…

>"space itself is expanding (into what? nobody knows)" I have a terrifying theory on this (granted, the Earth will be long gone). What if the universe is not actually expanding in the sense that it is being propelled by an initial explosion, but instead falling towards a much greater mass - the end of time so to speak, where all mass ends. Considering that gravity is a "weak force", the scale of such a mass makes me…

It's possible. The issue is that the we really don't have any information beyond what we have. We have an idea of the big bang and the expansion of the universe. We have knowledge of certain factors etc. But really, we're not really equipped to handle the scale of the cosmos.

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#78
post #2

Nice gravitational lens observation! We're hoping to use the same technique with the Sun to observe exoplanets by launching a fleet of small satellites to 547 AU (80 billion km / ~3 light days). The craft would sample the distorted Einstein ring around our Sun from that vantage point, then combine and reconstruct an image of the disk of an Earth-like exoplanet up to 100 light-years beyond, at a resolution of 25 kilom…

> 547 AU

For comparison Voyager-1 is now at a distance of 40 AU only.

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#79
post #50

Isn't it possible that the galaxy is much younger and it actually moved faster than light? I seem to remember reading that "islands" of spacetime could do that.

Which sci-fi author wrote that? That might make for interesting reading if you find it and share with the rest of the class.

https://phys.org/news/2015-10-galaxies-faster.html

Re: Why is there a normal galaxy sitting at the edge of the Universe?

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation is a pretty uniform field that exists over the entirety of the observable universe. It was created in the earliest days in our universe. The fact that it exists everywhere we look with high regularity lets us guess that we're only a subset of a larger universe. There are many theories about the unobservable parts of the universe but these are impossible to test with any fores…

One analogy I've heard: Imagine the big bang split into 4 spheres and they accelerated away from each other. Because they'll all be expanding and accelerating, there could be 4 equally sized spheres of stuff just like our own, but it would be impossible for us to observe them. Change the number 4 to 2 or 1000 or n. We really would have no idea.

A testable hypothesis is a strong standard in science. Most scientists don't worry about things that cannot or more importantly, will probably never be testable. They can be fun to think about but that's pretty much it.
Post reply on HN