Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#931

Post by cseleborg » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #312

jdm2212 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to provide the goods and services you'll consume when you're old. Those people are today's kids, whose parents are doing you a big favor at considerable expense to themselves. Raising children isn't like smoking, a hobby, a side hustle, or other miscellaneous personal obligations. It's more like military service and jury duty -- an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we kn…

Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? We already heavily subsidise child-rearing through taxes and other benefits. As I said elsewhere, there are mechanisms for supporting parents already. If you tried to let any other charitable endeavour take over your work schedule, you wouldn't expect your compensation to remain unaffected. I'm not resentful at parents. It just seems complete…

> Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless?

Well, why shouldn't it be?

> I'm not resentful at parents. It just seems completely unfair to make childless employees subsidise this adventure, as if they didn't already do it through 40 years of tax contributions.

Those children will later subsidize many childless people's retirement, either through contribution to pension funds or simply by keeping the world going.

> Besides, let's not pretend that people choose to have kids as a service to humanity. I've never, ever heard anyone claim that. People have kids because they're fun, and because making them is fun.

As I wrote earlier, it can be both a choice and a service to society/humanity.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#932

Post by Loughla » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

RandoHolmes wrote: post #582

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

roughly in the same boat you are, and I actually find it difficult to believe that this is anything more than an imagined problem. I can't imagine there's that many people that don't understand children are important and children need to be taken care of. I certainly have never gotten angry at not getting the tax breaks those with more dependents get, and I can't imagine there's that many other people who do. My opin…

>I certainly have never gotten angry at not getting the tax breaks those with more dependents get, and I can't imagine there's that many other people who do.

Cruising through this comment section tells me that a lot of people think about this a lot, apparently. Many are also apparently bitter that their tax dollars pay for services for children, even though they don't have children.

What a confusing attitude.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#933

Post by Loughla » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

hodgesrm wrote: post #462

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> What's next, complaining that the cancer patient gets extra time off so why don't I? I think the problem starts with framing the problem as parents vs. non-parents instead of considering a wide range of reasons why employees need more flexibility in work schedules for personal or family reasons. Those include sickness, taking care of children, taking care of elderly parents, a sick spouse, taking care of sick/dying…

Right? It's almost like employers need to kill the 9-5 factory mindset for those of us who don't make widgets.

I maintain my department with the understanding that you have to meet people where they are in life. Flexibility is key, with high, clear standards. My staff are happier and more committed than any other department on our campus because of this.

People aren't that hard to figure out - value them and be empathetic to their experiences.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#934

Post by sokoloff » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:12 PM UTC

throwta22 wrote: post #787

sokoloff wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my kids. Even with that, I assure you I was looking forward to the break and reduction in workload when my parental leave expired and I went back to the office...

At the place I work it was never mandatory to take parental leave. All these years I always said congratulations when coworkers had kids...when I really should have thanked them.

Employee handbooks are not the only source of mandates on this topic.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#935

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:12 PM UTC

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #856

mindcrime wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 47, no children, and have worked in tech most of my adult life. And I have NO resentment towards any parents who ask for, and receive, a certain amount of accommodation to deal with having their children at home during such an unusual time. And I can't even begin to grok the mindset of the people who do harbor that kind of resentment. WTF? Have you people not heard of compassion, understanding, or just basic huma…

Well..if I could cry a river, it wouldn’t be for you. Look, it’s not personal. It’s about the money. Please feel free to donate your money. How about turning that non judgemental POV to those who don’t care to be on your side.

I'm not claiming to be "non judgmental" here. I'm saying there's a place for basic human compassion. If you don't get that, I think you're a shallow, pathetic, and sad person. Feel free to disagree. YMMV.

And the really weird thing here, is that I'm the person that the stereotypes would suggest would be on the other side of this discussion. I'm totally on-board with Ayn Rand's notion of "the virtue of selfishness" and totally a supporter of capitalism, etc. But none of those things preclude - by definition - having a little capacity for empathy and understanding.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#936

Post by wrkronmiller » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:13 PM UTC

idrios wrote: post #598

wrkronmiller wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom to go to bars (closed), clubs (closed), trips (not happening), concerts (canceled), conventions (postponed indefinitely), festivals (closed), etc... I also love all of these things. I'm sorry you're bored. > Most things childfree people get meaning out of are canceled until further notice. Not really. Consider the following: - Athletics: running, hiking, boating, bicycling - Social Activity: responsible, so…

I think "bored" is a really unfair trivialization when the parent comment's choice of words was closer to "devoid of meaning". The examples you gave are the day to day things that childfree (& single) people are doing. None of those things involve meeting new people, which is exactly what is causing that emptiness. Trips, concerts, bars, etc are the kinds of special occasion that motivate the single person to make it…

I don't have children (never want children) and wasn't trying to trivialize being bored.

In fact, I found GP's situation to be quite relatable, and was relaying what I've been doing (or am planning to do) in lieu of going out.

Perhaps I should have added something to this effect: there is meaning in personal enrichment. Now is a terrible time for meeting new people, but it's also an opportunity for self-improvement and for exploring new hobbies.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#937

Post by wrkronmiller » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:16 PM UTC

alextheparrot wrote: post #670

wrkronmiller wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom to go to bars (closed), clubs (closed), trips (not happening), concerts (canceled), conventions (postponed indefinitely), festivals (closed), etc... I also love all of these things. I'm sorry you're bored. > Most things childfree people get meaning out of are canceled until further notice. Not really. Consider the following: - Athletics: running, hiking, boating, bicycling - Social Activity: responsible, so…

As someone who does a large number of these things, I am still far less happy than I would otherwise be. The rationale "We didn't plan for this" is equally valid for parents as it is for the childless. Trivializing that some people need to adjust their lifestyle in a thread about people feeling resentment about lifestyle challenges seems misguided to me. The pandemic has actually been great for my physical health. I…

> it doesn't help that a lot of the aforementioned activities are predicated on the entire state of California not being a large smoke cloud right now

Quite fair. I live on the East Coast and that never crossed my mind.

As for the rest, I'll copy my above reply:

I don't have children (never want children) and wasn't trying to trivialize being bored.

In fact, I found GP's situation to be quite relatable, and was relaying what I've been doing (or am planning to do) in lieu of going out.

Perhaps I should have added something to this effect: there is meaning in personal enrichment. Now is a terrible time for meeting new people, but it's also an opportunity for self-improvement and for exploring new hobbies.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#938

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:20 PM UTC

SenoraRaton wrote: post #640

jknz wrote: post #266

Managing remote school sessions plus my work was a mess. I made my 10 and 12yo kids drop their remote school stuff and work with me instead. The young one is responsible for slack, keeping everyone in the living room updated and replying with text and the occasional gif, he also summarizes with voice important incoming emails. Older one writes python code alongside me and I now mostly check her syntax. She learned gi…

I'm pretty sure child labor is against the law....

[deleted]

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#939

Post by leetcrew » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

ethanwillis wrote: post #323

nicbou wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is made again and again in this thread, and it never got addressed. 1. There are already functional mechanisms for contribution. A single, childless person is already contributing more through their taxes. The government already heavily subsidises child-rearing. 2. Child-rearing is given an arbitrary pass that other equally charitable actions wouldn't get. A single, childless person couldn't let his com…

1. If you don't want to pay taxes don't be part of society. The government subsidizes child rearing because it should. But it also doesn't fully cover the cost. 2. It's not an arbitrary pass. A childless person's commitment to Doctors Without Borders is much more flexible than a parent's commitment to a living a human. 3. The world population is only really growing in less developed countries. But it doesn't matter b…

> The government subsidizes child rearing because it should.

why exactly? generally, it is rational to subsidize things that society does not have enough of and tax things that we have too much of. are we currently not producing enough children? this is not necessarily implied by birthrates being below the replacement rate.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#940

Post by leetcrew » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 1:42 PM UTC

jdm2212 wrote: post #321

nicbou wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is made again and again in this thread, and it never got addressed. 1. There are already functional mechanisms for contribution. A single, childless person is already contributing more through their taxes. The government already heavily subsidises child-rearing. 2. Child-rearing is given an arbitrary pass that other equally charitable actions wouldn't get. A single, childless person couldn't let his com…

1. Government subsidies don't cover anything close to the cost of raising a child. 2. Child-rearing is a thing tens of millions of people actually do interleaved with full-time work, and has to be addressed by high-level decision makers. There are lots of hypothetical things a specific individual might want to do that maybe have high social utility, and that's an interesting question for them to sort out with their m…

there's no inherent need for a growing, or even stable, population. this is only a rough proxy for having a sufficiently productive working population to support those who can't work or have retired without undue hardship.