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Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

wsj.com

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Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#331

Post by wruza »

cf_ wrote: post #203

I really wish there was a third party - the customer - actually represented in this trial. Apple and Epic arguing over what is best for the customer, while clearly they are having their own interests in mind, screams for the actual customers to be represented. The whole argument about them promoting an app „for free“ is a bit ridiculous. They clearly knew the amount of commission they were going to earn from pushing…

I actually like it the way it is now. You don't hear our arguments, you only want to be represented in that court without us. But conscious apple users are not all pro-sideload.

if the App Store is such a tremendous value, why don‘t you ask users to pay for access to that App Store directly

Because the value is not in the appstore itself, but in an inability to push uncontrolled spy/trick/crap-ware through side channels, so that thieves and con artists have no way to trick or force a user out of safety.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#332

Post by harpratap »

pjmlp wrote: post #309
simion314 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a good thing, competition between this stores is good for the users, some users got free games, some developers got better deals. The "needs to launch on startup" is FALSE , you can have this launchers set no to start at all and you launch the game and the launcher will start if needed (not all Steam games need Steam in background). FYI GOG launcher is optional, you can just download the game from the web…

If I want a store competition I go to shopping mall. The only store that has a place on my devices is the OS vendor store.

No one's stopping you from using only Apple store. Why force your choice on other consumers? Let people decide what's best for them

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#333

Post by pjmlp »

mcphage wrote: post #169
kevingadd wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Unity and Unreal Engine disappeared from iOS you'd probably lose at least 50% of the games on that platform, if not more. Likely almost all of the top revenue-generating titles. People use middleware like UE and Unity to compensate for how difficult it is to ship games on Apple's platforms (along with others) instead of building for Apple's SDK. The citadel demo is the tip of the iceberg.

> to compensate for how difficult it is to ship games on Apple's platforms (along with others) instead of building for Apple's SDK. Apple's SDK doesn't contain a game engine.

Right, it actually contains two game engines:

2D => https://developer.apple.com/spritekit/

3D => https://developer.apple.com/scenekit/

Alongside lots of other game related goodies, https://developer.apple.com/games/

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#334

Post by danbolt »

beaner wrote: post #299
valuearb wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The App Store generates nearly 10 times as much revenues for developers per device sold as Google Play. How is building a safer walled garden that attracts the highest spending customers and makes them extremely comfortable with buying apps and subscriptions not a massive amount of utility?

Because if the app was permitted to be installed outside of the app store, it would make more money, meaning the app store offers negative utility to some developers. Fortnite is a huge brand outside of iOS. It iOS did not make the success of Fortnite. Epic doesn't need the app store's advertising to succeed, and being forced to go through this bottleneck only hampers them.

> iOS did not make the success of Fortnite

Does iOS make the success of any app?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#335

Post by Lev1a »

vbezhenar wrote: post #274
applecrazy wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> devs who feel that they can supply their own marketing and payment processing can do it themselves. The issue I have with that is that then a ton of companies think it's a good idea to ship a crappy "launcher" that needs to run on startup, taking up resources in the background while providing little to no added functionality. We can see that with PC games; it used to be just Steam, but now there's the Epic Games La…

If you don't like their launchers, don't use their apps, it's simple as that. They're free to create a software in a way they feel appropriate. You're free to use or not to use that software.

That's not so simple with the hypocrite named Epic who preach about competition being better for all while buying exclusive distribution rights from devs/publishers on PC, sometimes even for games that had been long announced to be coming out on Steam and/or were crowdfunded on that and other premises.

Case in point: "Satisfactory". I was pretty excited about the game when it was first shown, then found later

* it would be removed from Steam,

* I'd have to get an account for another store,

* use a store made by some incompetents who couldn't implement basic functionality like a "shopping cart" even months after release (does it have one by now?)

* give part of my money through Epic to fucking Tencent and install a piece of Chinese spyware on my PC in order to run it. Also no implicit Linux support because no Proton and because Sweeney loves to bend over for Microsoft exclusively.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#336

Post by pjmlp »

swiley wrote: post #318
samatman wrote: post #26

I look forward to Epic's next set of suits against Sony and Microsoft, who offer basically identical terms for inclusion on the app platforms for Playstation and Xbox, respectively.

Microsoft allows installing unsigned games on the Xbox and neither are marketing their devices as a PC.

Good luck doing that with XDK games.

UWP games on XBOX are for indies, or to sell game idea concepts to Microsoft, as means to get an invitation to the big boys club.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#337

Post by canofbars »

danbolt wrote: post #328
realusername wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ToS is up to the owner of the platform When there's only two companies fully controlling the next era of computing platforms, there's some argument that they have way too much power in their hand. > The game is like a car that drives on a road. The car is Epic's Fortnite. The road is a toll road. The road was built by Apple. Many cars can drive on this road but must pay a fee. (The analogy isn't 1:1 but work wi…

We better start launching apps for Pinephones and asking MNT Research to make a phone, then.

The simple solution to this is a law requiring that all general purpose computing devices (Lets define this as something that the user can install and run programs on) must provide a feature to run unauthenticated 3rd party software. Android, Windows and Linux already allow this and macOS used to.

IMO this should extend to game consoles too. You should be able to run homebrew games and tools on a console.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#338

Post by pjmlp »

harpratap wrote: post #332
pjmlp wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I want a store competition I go to shopping mall. The only store that has a place on my devices is the OS vendor store.

No one's stopping you from using only Apple store. Why force your choice on other consumers? Let people decide what's best for them

They have the choice to buy other brands.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#339

Post by bzb5 »

swiley wrote: post #324
bzb5 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I like my newfound ideology so much, I think it should be written into law”

His argument is that the law should prevent this kind of abuse. That’s the ideology itself.

Is that what rms says? That his ideology should not be an option, but mandatory? Honest question.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#340

Post by realusername »

danbolt wrote: post #328
realusername wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ToS is up to the owner of the platform When there's only two companies fully controlling the next era of computing platforms, there's some argument that they have way too much power in their hand. > The game is like a car that drives on a road. The car is Epic's Fortnite. The road is a toll road. The road was built by Apple. Many cars can drive on this road but must pay a fee. (The analogy isn't 1:1 but work wi…

We better start launching apps for Pinephones and asking MNT Research to make a phone, then.

That's exactly what I will do myself, in a few weeks I will receive my Pinephone and will port my existing personal finance app onto it.

But legal changes also need to come from above as well to ensure a fair computing market. I'm doing it more as a symbolic protest than any hope I will contribute towards that.

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