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Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

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Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#261

Post by phaus »

jjcon wrote: post #236
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices (however broadly construed)? I think the answer is two. Amazon has like 10% of the tablet market share, but the tablet market is like 1/20th the size of the phone market. Just to demonstrate that this is the variable that matters, consider the case where there are exactly three devices that have each of the other marketplaces installed on them, respect…

> How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices 4/5 in the examples I gave. Google, Apple, Samsung and Amazon all have decent market share.

Samsung's market is installed on a substantial percentage of phones but almost no one on any of those devices uses anything besides the regular Google Play store. So while you technically answered his question in the larger conversation Samsung's app store isn't a competitive alternative.

I couldn't find robust stats on Amazon's market share overall but I did find that they sold 5.3% of all tablets in Q3 2019. So if its true that the phone market is 20 times larger than that it would mean its unlikely that The Amazon App store is installed on 1% of all mobile devices.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#262

Post by bananabreakfast »

akira2501 wrote: post #253
ecf wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe next Toyota will decide that they deserve a percentage of Uber’s revenue because Toyota's cars help facilitate Uber’s business? There are many car manufacturers that Uber could choose from in just the same way that there are many platforms that developers can develop for. Stop trying to spread the idea that the ability to make apps for the iPhone is an inalienable right.

> Stop trying to spread the idea that the ability to make apps for the iPhone is an inalienable right. Yes, but neither should Apple have the right to prevent users from using alternative app stores and applications on their own iPhones.

Why should they not have that right?

Does Sony not have the right to prevent users from using alternative game stores to run unofficial games on their PS4?

Does Nintendo not have the right to prevent users from using an alternative to the eShop to download games for their Switch?

Does Tesla not have the right to prevent users from downloading and running whatever random applications they wish on their Tesla?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#263

Post by bananabreakfast »

beaner wrote: post #50
Traster wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is reasonable to charge developers for development tools, but if that's what you want to do, just charge them for development tools. This isn't how the software development eco-system works. There are tonnes of examples of providing free development tools with restrictions on use and revenue sharing agreements. For example, there's this little known company called Epic Games which provides the Unreal Engine for…

They seem not quite the same to me. A game built with Unreal Engine is essentially powered by it and would not exist otherwise. A game deployed to an iPhone could theoretically be acquired through an alternative app store or just direct download. Apple's app store provides no utility to developers other than being the forced walled monopoly that all developers must list through. The proper analogy to Epic charging fo…

How is it a monopoly?

Apple has a monopoly... on Apple products?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#264

Post by [deleted] »

hnra wrote: post #213
jjcon wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let‘s see how valuable everybody thinks the App Store is when they actually have to pay an access fee directly to Apple They do, it’s called buying an iphone

I bought an iPhone despite the App Store, so I don't think that logic really holds.

[deleted]

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#265

Post by rpdillon »

jjcon wrote: post #210
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just waiting untill car companies as "platform owners" start preventing you from driving to areas they don't like, or exceeding speed limit. Afterall, you just paid for the car, they still own the software that controls the engine.

> I am just waiting untill car companies as "platform owners" start preventing you from driving to areas they don't like, or exceeding speed limit. Maybe just don’t buy that car then?

Just like I should buy a phone without a restrictive app store installed by default that bans apps capriciously?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#266

Post by joshuaellinger »

KindOne wrote: post #144
cjoelrun wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a better analogy that car dealerships deserve revenue for selling Toyota's cars? Running an app store and providing a safe platform for users isn't free right?

Car dealership analogy is flawed. In some states its illegal for the car manufacturer to directly sale to the consumer, they have to go through car dealerships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes

The dealership model comes from the abuses by the OEMs during the first part of the 1930s. They would sell you cars and then charge a ton for repairs and lock you in to only getting repairs from them.

The local dealerships are small businesses incorporated in the states so they can be subject to more political pressure and local control.

It has been eroded over the years but originally the dealerships protected consumers from the sort of bad behavior you see from Telsa and Apple.

Not that I love the dealership model but there is real competition at the local level on car repair in a way that there doesn't appear to be with Telsa.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#267

Post by gazarullz »

zaksoup wrote: post #250
KindOne wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car dealership analogy is flawed. In some states its illegal for the car manufacturer to directly sale to the consumer, they have to go through car dealerships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes

Honestly, I think this makes it an even better analogy! Apple is exactly like the dealership groups suing Tesla to prevent them from selling directly to consumers.

Not really, Tesla hasn’t placed their cars in dealerships for years bound by a contract, and all of a sudden decided that dealerships don’t deserve the margin the same Tesla would have been bound to pay through the above contract terms.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#268

Post by [deleted] »

hnra wrote: post #213
jjcon wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let‘s see how valuable everybody thinks the App Store is when they actually have to pay an access fee directly to Apple They do, it’s called buying an iphone

I bought an iPhone despite the App Store, so I don't think that logic really holds.

[deleted]

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#270

Post by tylorr »

cf_ wrote: post #203

I really wish there was a third party - the customer - actually represented in this trial. Apple and Epic arguing over what is best for the customer, while clearly they are having their own interests in mind, screams for the actual customers to be represented. The whole argument about them promoting an app „for free“ is a bit ridiculous. They clearly knew the amount of commission they were going to earn from pushing…

> Let‘s see how valuable everybody thinks the App Store is when they actually have to pay an access fee directly to Apple

Many apps compensate for the apple fees by increasing the IAP prices. So they already do but may not be aware of it I guess.

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