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Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

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Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#181

Post by pier25 »

parasubvert wrote: post #66
theflyingelvis wrote: post #5

“There is nothing anticompetitive about charging a commission for others to use one’s service,” Apple said in the filing. What about forcing someone or some company to use a service (apple's payment systems)?

No one is forced to use it: just stop developing for iOS. Same goes for any other platform like Google Play, Xbox, Nintendo, etc. Or selling concert tickets through Ticketmaster.

Technically yes, in reality you can't ignore iOS if you're in the mobile space. You think people would keep using say Evernote or Spotify if it didn't have an iOS app?

Also, it's not only about the App Store. You can't simply tell the iOS users of your mobile web app to use an Android device.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#182

Post by pier25 »

bhouston wrote: post #23
anm89 wrote: post #4

It's as if Apple is on a mission to destroy the credibility and respect they had.

From a contractual standpoint outside of emotion, I think Apple will absolutely destroy Epic Games' position here in court. The only think Epic Games can hope for at this point is for the court to find Apple is a monopoly and engaging in unfair business practices but I think that type of finding isn't even in the court's purview -- I think that anti-trust needs to be a suit from the US government? https://en.wikipedi…

Maybe Apple will win in court, but it is losing trmendously in the dev and gamer space. I'm sure this was Epic's plan all along.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#183

Post by hu3 »

threeseed wrote: post #176
jrockway wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter what Epic is doing. Loot boxes, game engines, and game mechanics aren't the issue here. The issue is that I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want. You know what? I played Fortnite and I hated it. I won't be installing Fortnite or buying any skins for it. But, Epic has the right to offer their product to me without interference. Apple already has $1000 of my…

> I, a user of an iPhone, should be able to install whatever software I want And you can. You just need to bypass Apple's security mechanisms.

That breaks ToS.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#185

Post by kllrnohj »

m3kw9 wrote: post #131
liability wrote: post #6

In my experience bullies cry the most when they get hit back. Apple throwing a temper tantrum when somebody fights back fits that pattern.

In my view Epic is the full grown capable adult wanting to live in his parents basement for free.

Except no, because Epic wants to move out entirely. They don't want to use Apple's house (read: payments & app store) at all.

But Apple has everyone chained up in the basement.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#186

Post by Razengan »

Does anybody else remember how well they used to get along?

Here's Epic demoing Fortnite at WWDC15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChIuImrOsaY

Ever since the Citadel and Zen Garden demos, I remember Epic getting a prime spot or mention at almost every WWDC, where they used their tech to showcase Apple's and vice versa, like the power of modern iPads and Metal.

What do you think must have gone down behind closed doors for their relations to have soured to this point?

Unless of course it's all a calculated stunt that ultimately benefits both companies.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#187

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

manicdee wrote: post #168
raydev wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This license is free to use and incurs 5% royalties when you monetize your game or other interactive off-the-shelf product and your lifetime gross revenues from that product exceed $1,000,000 USD. > And Epic doesn't even provide quality control, a discovery mechanism, or payment processing. Apple takes 30% off all purchases upfront, and maybe they'll cut you a deal if you're Netflix-size. On top of that, Apple's "…

> Epic, however, takes 5%..... after you pull in $1mil in revenue. That's it. That's it, for now. Epic is trying to set themselves up as publisher like Steam. Once they can get first-party status as an app store on iOS their tune will change. This is about money, and one way to make money is to get people hooked on your product then jack up the price.

Let's persecute everyone for the crimes they might commit in the future.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#188

Post by Razengan »

kbenson wrote: post #167
parasubvert wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

arguably the whole reason for iOS’ success is that it is a service, and not just a passive piece of software. I’m not so sure developers would want the alternative of malware-plagued PCs. Previous consumer OSes had major usability and security drawbacks for the average consumer. Through no fault of their own, their computers would gradually get slower and corrupted by 3rd parties. This is similar to the shift to clou…

> I’m not so sure developers would want the alternative of malware-plagued PCs. We would never even be at the level we're at if there weren't those malware-plagued PCs and their open marketplace of software and operating systems competing with each other. > Previous consumer OSes had major usability and security drawbacks for the average consumer. You mean Windows did, because A) it was the OS of the vast majority of…

> We would never even be at the level we're at if there weren't those malware-plagued PCs

The mobile industry would also never even be at the level it's at if it wasn't for the iPhone.

One of the biggest selling points of iOS was precisely that it was free of random third-party crap that everyone was sick of by that time.

Ever since Apple refused to let AT&T shovel their bloatware on the first iPhone, the very identity of iOS has been that it's a curated platform, and you only have to be concerned with one company for almost everything.

It was a breath of fresh air, bringing the philosophy of consoles to a mass consumer device.

Millions of people love that. For everybody else, there's Android.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#189

Post by justapassenger »

m3kw9 wrote: post #81

Couldn’t have said it better myself: “Epic’s lawsuit is nothing more than a basic disagreement over money,” Apple said in its filing Tuesday. “Although Epic portrays itself as a modern corporate Robin Hood, in reality it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise that simply wants to pay nothing for the tremendous value it derives from the App Store.”

Alternative view:

“Although Apple portrays itself as a modern corporate United Nations, in reality it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise that simply wants to get a cut for the tremendous value it partners derive to their platform.”

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#190

Post by Razengan »

wayneftw wrote: post #45
samatman wrote: post #26

I look forward to Epic's next set of suits against Sony and Microsoft, who offer basically identical terms for inclusion on the app platforms for Playstation and Xbox, respectively.

I look forward to hearing an argument about how game consoles are nearly as important to society or as ubiquitous, as smart phones.

> I look forward to hearing an argument about how game consoles are nearly as important to society or as ubiquitous, as smart phones.

I look forward to hearing an argument about how iPhones == all smart phones, or why the millions of users (including developer) who love the single-curator nature of iOS should be forcibly deprived of that.

(Sorry for the snark, just continuing the mimicry chain)

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