Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#661

Post by solidsnack9000 » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

dk1138 wrote: post #406

softwaredoug wrote: post #18

It's simply depressing how parent/kid-hostile society has become... I'm not saying we need explosive population growth. But I feel one of the main purposes of society is raising and protecting children. If you're a human-future-optimist, you want some kind of generation that's better than us to continue on.... I'm not saying you NEED to have kids, but I feel it's part of society's collective duty to consider the next…

Oh man, this is all so many social issues in a pot that's boiling over. First, as someone with kids, I appreciate everything my company is doing to help me manage workload and parenting. I've been impressed with my company. Not all are the same though. A friend, who is a child-less female who works with two other moms and a mom-to-be is constantly getting saddled with the work that her team members are dumping on her…

In a very real sense, the de facto transfer from single people to people with kids is just taking from the have-nots to give to the haves.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#662

Post by _coveredInBees » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

jartelt wrote: post #313

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

1) I think you are ignoring that it is possible for non-parent employees to be negatively affected by the pandemic as well. You seem to be dealing with it very well (which is great!), but others may be stuck working from noisy, cramped apartments and may be getting little to no social interaction. This is can definitely cause health issues and degrade happiness. Those employees look at the large amount of family leav…

*You choose to have children under the assumption that a once-in-several-lifetime pandemic doesn't shut down the world, take all child-care options off the plate and leave you stuck at home caring for one or more children with no support system while also trying to juggle work.

No parent "chose" the current situation, just like no one chooses to have cancer.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#663

Post by jquery » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #459

rootusrootus wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the obvious downsides for a moment, I'd happily trade places with one of my childless coworkers right about now. This morning I went up and down the stairs at least ten times while trying to get my 7- and 9-year old kids successfully established in their first remote learning session, simultaneously participating in two consecutive Zoom meetings with coworkers, and figuring out how to solve a nagging issue i…

A BIG chunk of all that drama is due to the US social safety net not including childcare. That's the thing disturbing thing about these stories: employees are turned against each other when it's a) the company; and b) your tax dollars, not providing any kind of built-in childcare for society. In France, kids can go to preschool and have pre- and post- school childcare, which has to be paid, but it's only like $500/mo…

Childcare was nearly shut down during a large fraction of this pandemic (with some supply for children of essential workers). Childcare is still not back at full capacity.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#664

Post by Waterluvian » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:04 AM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #524

Waterluvian wrote: post #291

One thing I wish I could make my childless peers grok is that THERE IS NO VACATION when you have young kids. I’m taking this week off and people speak as if I’m on vacation. Please please hear my words literally: my job is my break. Weekends are more physically and intellectually exhausting than weekdays when I get to $&@# off to work for eight hours. My paid time off is a way to give us a fighting chance at laundry…

That is called life. There is no vacation when you have a sick spouse, or bought a new house, or are in a car accident. Your job shouldn't be your break, regardless of your situation. My wife is at a FAANG company currently covering for 4 people who all get double digit weeks off because they chose to have children. Does she get any time off for literally working 18 hour days 7 days a week? No of course not.

> have a sick spouse or bought a new house, or are in a car accident.

This made me laugh a little because they’re such bad examples unless you’re American. Universal healthcare and sane house prices make these specifically the times you can and should slow down.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#665

Post by gones00n » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:04 AM UTC

frequentnapper wrote: post #512

jdm2212 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to provide the goods and services you'll consume when you're old. Those people are today's kids, whose parents are doing you a big favor at considerable expense to themselves. Raising children isn't like smoking, a hobby, a side hustle, or other miscellaneous personal obligations. It's more like military service and jury duty -- an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we kn…

>an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we know it can continue to exist I empathize with parents, but please don't make it sound like it's a selfless act they are doing for the good of society. Also, childless couples/singles get taxed at quite a high rate (after any returns) vs parents. You compound that over 21 or whatever years it takes for kids to become "productive". Furthermore…

Well said. It's a bit farcical that this discussion has degenerated into "I have kids for the better of society".

Let's stick to the simpler rationale that some people have kids because they love kids and/or want to pass down their genes.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#666

Post by daxfohl » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

I continue to wonder who is needing new widgets during this time. It all seems so disconnected from reality.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#667

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:06 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I think you missed the point of the article entirely. The complaints aren’t so much about what parents do get, but instead about what childless employees don’t get.

When your parent coworkers are tossing extra work over the fence to you, ditching critical meetings at the last second without delegating, which in turn forces you to stay late and put the pedal to the metal for weeks on end to maintain their productivity for them and your own, all while not only not getting a thank-you but instead getting effectively a middle finger where your colleague is saying “fuck you, you don’t have real problems or commitments because you don’t have a kid, pick up the slack and deal with it cuz I’m on kid duty” it’s extremely miserable and open season on extreme burnout.

Let alone the wildly ridiculous idea that you might get an extra bonus, higher raise, faster promotion, etc., for picking up that slack... you’ll be lucky to get coworker parents just even being slightly kind to you and showing a modicum of appreciation for the childless people picking up extreme slack despite their own lockdown induced mental health and time crunch issues.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#668

Post by Waterluvian » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:08 AM UTC

askvictor wrote: post #531

Waterluvian wrote: post #291

One thing I wish I could make my childless peers grok is that THERE IS NO VACATION when you have young kids. I’m taking this week off and people speak as if I’m on vacation. Please please hear my words literally: my job is my break. Weekends are more physically and intellectually exhausting than weekdays when I get to $&@# off to work for eight hours. My paid time off is a way to give us a fighting chance at laundry…

Yeah, I'm surprised the headline isn't the other way around: "parents increasingly resentful of their childless peers"

If you made me pick a term it would be closer to pity, not resentment.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#669

Post by chasd00 » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:08 AM UTC

my wife is a middle school teacher and I have kids ages 8 and 10. I work at a major consulting firm but, fortunately, travel is zero right now. it's certainly been out of the ordinary having the kids at home and going to school over zoom. it's not easy but not much of parenthood is, I try to roll with it and pick my battles. I passed on some very cool projects because of LOE knowing full well I wouldn't have the time to dedicate.

ironically, our friends having the hardest time are stay-at-home moms. back to school is a cherished time for them and they're having a hard time adjusting.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#670

Post by alextheparrot » Wed, Sep 09, 2020, 2:11 AM UTC

wrkronmiller wrote: post #435

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom to go to bars (closed), clubs (closed), trips (not happening), concerts (canceled), conventions (postponed indefinitely), festivals (closed), etc... Most things childfree people get meaning out of are canceled until further notice. You still have your parenthood. What do we get? Extra work for equal pay? Great, that'll make the pandemic suck less.

> Freedom to go to bars (closed), clubs (closed), trips (not happening), concerts (canceled), conventions (postponed indefinitely), festivals (closed), etc... I also love all of these things. I'm sorry you're bored. > Most things childfree people get meaning out of are canceled until further notice. Not really. Consider the following: - Athletics: running, hiking, boating, bicycling - Social Activity: responsible, so…

As someone who does a large number of these things, I am still far less happy than I would otherwise be. The rationale "We didn't plan for this" is equally valid for parents as it is for the childless. Trivializing that some people need to adjust their lifestyle in a thread about people feeling resentment about lifestyle challenges seems misguided to me.

The pandemic has actually been great for my physical health. I picked up cycling and have gone (solo) hiking and backpacking more than ever, looking forward to my gym opening with reservations. On the other hand, my apartment's walls are littered with relics of past concerts, trips, friends nights - rich social moments. I crave those moments again. Many of these cancellations and closures disproportionally affect childless people, because, as many of the other commentators have noted, children fill a lot of the time that would otherwise be spent doing those canceled or closed activities.

As an aside, it doesn't help that a lot of the aforementioned activities are predicated on the entire state of California not being a large smoke cloud right now (With many of the National Forests, for example, closed).