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Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#581

Post by lozaning »

rootusrootus wrote: post #523
jbay808 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Edited to clarify my intended meaning) > I'd happily trade places with one of my childless coworkers right about now. For those childless co-workers that wish they could accept the other end of this deal, this phrase is both common and quite painful to hear. Please consider not using it unless you really mean it, which you don't, as you actually wouldn't give up your kids for anything.

It wasn't meant with malice nor any intent to cause negative feelings. I think it's not really possible to say anything at all that won't possibly distress someone out of all the possible readers, so I just try to keep my intentions good and avoid the obvious gaffes. In this case it's just a figure of speech.

It's ableist, 'just a figure of speech' or not

Imagine you're blind.

Now Imagine a sighted person tells you that they've just seen something so ugly they wish they were blind. You might be a bit upset at that notion no?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#582

Post by RandoHolmes »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

roughly in the same boat you are, and I actually find it difficult to believe that this is anything more than an imagined problem.

I can't imagine there's that many people that don't understand children are important and children need to be taken care of. I certainly have never gotten angry at not getting the tax breaks those with more dependents get, and I can't imagine there's that many other people who do.

My opinion is that this is just another journalist trying to drum up drama for clicks.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#583

Post by streblo »

mike_d wrote: post #539
umeshunni wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But everyone was a child at some point

My parents never got time off to just take care of me. I was on my own. Do I get a refund or a credit? Maybe a vacation voucher?

Can life not be better for us or our children than for our parents? This kind of thinking keeps everyone down.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#584

Post by notyourwork »

jdm2212 wrote: post #339
nicbou wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? We already heavily subsidise child-rearing through taxes and other benefits. As I said elsewhere, there are mechanisms for supporting parents already. If you tried to let any other charitable endeavour take over your work schedule, you wouldn't expect your compensation to remain unaffected. I'm not resentful at parents. It just seems complete…

> Then is it cool if I skip a few meetings to volunteer to help the homeless? That's the thing -- you won't actually go volunteer with the homeless. (Or at least, 99% of us wouldn't.) But parents actually have to change those diapers. If there's a little kid running around in the background of that Zoom call, someone is doing a lot of hard work to keep the kid alive. And unlike volunteering at the homeless shelter, t…

> But parents actually have to change those diapers.

Parents actually have to have kids to be in a position of caring for a dependent.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#585

Post by aaomidi »

alexpotato wrote: post #465
aaomidi wrote: post #152

What I find short sighted about these policies are they don't realize that people without children can also feel stressed and need more time off. e.g. if you're single during this time, you are completely isolated from the world, and your colleagues. This can be extremely difficult mentally and on an individual level can be much harder than just someone with a kid. These policies shouldn't be "oh if you have kids you…

> if you're single during this time, you are completely isolated from the world, and your colleagues. This can be extremely difficult mentall 100% this. Especially for the single folks who were living in big cities (E.g. NYC) and had gotten used to the "I can step out of my apartment building and it's ALL. RIGHT. THERE!" At least when you have children the "kid train" never stops which leaves little time to worry abo…

Yep and I'm not even single and I feel worse for single people than I do for parents.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#586

Post by haram_masala »

disown wrote: post #579
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. Where is your empathy for the "middle-aged adult with no children"? Are you sure you are a "middle-aged adult with no children" because you sound like a person with children. > If anything, I'm thankful for all those people with kids w…

Let’s keep HN a place where we assume the best of each other, accept each other at their word, and treat each other with dignity and respect.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#587

Post by RandoHolmes »

ll931110 wrote: post #12
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

The problem is, people without children are told (or required) to pick up the workload left behind when the coworkers having children taking (multiple) weeks off. For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

The same thing happens when a coworker gets sick or goes on vacation.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#588

Post by derwiki »

Waterluvian wrote: post #400
tolbish wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have family or close friends that could look after them for a few days?

The one year old isn’t ready for overnights for a number of reasons. I’m not saying we’re in dire straits here. Being a parent is the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever done. But it’s also the hardest job I’ve ever had. And you can’t wake up and decide to take a me day.

This is a tangent and I'm not trying to belittle your position: but the bit about can't waking up and decide to take a day off reminded me of a country song about how soldiers can't call in sick on Monday, work straight through the holidays.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#589

Post by manfredo »

oblio wrote: post #386
room500 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this sentiment. Farming is critical for society. However, we don't require everyone to pull on their overalls and work the land. Security is critical for society. However, we don't expect every person to pick up their machine gun and jump in a trench. Society is nowhere near a population level that is dangerously low. In fact, we are more concerned with overpopulation and overconsumption. If you ha…

Modern technology means that 2% of the citizens of a developed country can feed the rest. That's why nobody wants/needs the average J. to farm. Modern technology means that only a small percentage of citizens are enough to defend the rest. That's why nobody wants/needs the average J. to fight. If all of a sudden, say, 50% of the people having children now, in developed countries, would decide to not have children, we…

> If all of a sudden, say, 50% of the people having children now, in developed countries, would decide to not have children, we'd probably have societal collapse. That's what happened in societies where the population went down by huge percentages in a short time span. Housing markets would collapse, education systems would collapse, healthcare systems would collapse, demand for a million types of things needed by babies and children would collapse (and taking with it many, many professions), etc.

Yes, and? Understand that a housing market "collapsing" means the price of housing becomes substantially more affordable. Same with education. This is a huge part of why Europe is able to subsidize its education so heavily on a per-student basis. The share of the population that is enrolled in university in Germany is about half the share of the US enrolled in university in the US (at least, pre-COVID).

Reduction in demand results in diminished GDP which freaks out economists, but it doesn't result in a decline in GDP per capita. There are fewer people producing, but there are also fewer mouths to feed.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#590

Post by bluejellybean »

duderific wrote: post #337
bluejellybean wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your last bit. >'Given the extreme change we are going through, the “if you can’t handle it, don’t have kids argument” is just not realistic. A pandemic isn’t “just how life goes”.' Maybe not a pandemic but it shouldn't be any shock that children make things much more complicated. It's, most of the time in the US today, a choice to have a child. The unexpected nature of a pandemic isn't really an excu…

> Maybe not a pandemic ... But, we are in a pandemic now. So the rest of your argument is moot. > One knows unexpected things happen with children, if you haven't prepared for those unplanned contingencies, that's on you as a parent. Sure, maybe a broken leg, or mono, or some other health issue could force the child to be home for a while. But not all schools close suddenly, and all other childcare options as well. W…

>But, we are in a pandemic now. So the rest of your argument is moot.

Firm disagreement, change the word pandemic with cancer diagnosis, it's the same problem from the parent point of view. My point is, when, exactly, should the company be going above and beyond for you if it isn't spelled out in your contract?

> Sure, maybe a broken leg, or mono, or some other health issue could force the child to be home for a while. But not all schools close suddenly, and all other childcare options as well.

What about summer, schools close for months at a time. I understand what you are saying though, for the record, I'm not saying this is an easy situation. The reality though, like all catastrophe, there is going to be a bit of chaos and headache finding methods to resume 'normal' life.

> and all other childcare options as well. It's an absurd notion to say that _all_ other options closed, maybe businesses are but this isn't the only option.

> What would planning for that look like exactly? With first hand experience, it's quite straightforward. Parent coordination work hours, family members take care watching the younger members, close friends/neighbors pick up slack from the line. I guarantee you that there is someone out their willing to watch your kids for a few hours a day if you look hard enough.

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