Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#341

Post by throwaway5792 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #250

gus_massa wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a 24 hours electricity outage last week. (Some problem with an electric wire in the whole block after a heavy rain). Should I buy an electricity generator just in case? I expect to be able to send the kids to school, perhaps at least a few hours per day. It is impossible now. An in case the school is not working, I can send them with one of the grandmas or the other. But we are currently in the peak of the pan…

Glad to hear you're taking responsibility for your life choices in this time of hardship. But... that's what you signed up for when you made the decision to have a child. I guess the question is: Do you believe that you should receive benefits above and beyond those of childless adults because of your life choices? That the act of becoming a parent is so sacred it should grant you benefits in otherwise unrelated area…

Yes.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#342

Post by analog31 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #220

analog31 wrote: post #94

Come to the Midwest. Here's how we do it. First of all, you can't retire at 30 on an entry level engineer salary (poetic license taken). Second, there are no child care benefits. Instead, parents with kids split things up. One parent (usually the one who was earning less anyway) dials down their career, perhaps by going part time. The other parent dials up, by competing for promotions. For instance, it's almost like…

After hearing that, I really don't think I want to come to the Midwest :-P (to work, that is).

I look at it like being in a different country. I mean, suppose you live in country X, and you know that salaries and benefits are higher in country Y. Still, only so many people can move from X to Y, for whatever reason. So you live your life as well as you can in your home country.

And at least you don't live in country Z. ;-)

At my age and skill set, I don't know if I'd be competitive for a job in one of the high-wage cities anyway. There may be some things that I can do cheaper, that make it attractive for my employer to keep me rather than moving my work elsewhere.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#343

Post by watertom » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

Companies don't have any social responsibility.

Companies don't have any country allegiance responsibilities.

Companies don't have any employee allegiance responsibilities.

Companies only have responsibilities to the shareholders.

If I was running a company in the U.S., and in my role I basically I am doing that I'd be completely furious with the the U.S. government and how they've handled the pandemic, and I am furious with the U.S. government and how they've handled this pandemic.

Health care responsibilities for employees have been shoved down the throat of companies for years. Now companies are supposed to make accommodations for the failure of a government to act correctly during a pandemic.

Pandemic, Blah, blah blah, "I need to spend my day as a parent, so I can't work, but please pay me like I am working." If an employee can't complete their job tasks they should be fired. It doesn't matter that it's the failure of a government to act that's causing the employee come up short, that's not the problem of the company.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#344

Post by throwaway5792 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #226

lrem wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have it crossed your mind that maybe these people had the time and means to raise the kids, until a global pandemic has broken the plan a, the commercial plan b, the social plan c and the plan d? Because at the time the schools closed, the after school care also closed, people were told to not leave their kids with friends and no matter what never ever let them any near grandparents? Or have you totally missed that p…

Extended families have been isolating together since the beginning; Never were families discourages from isolating together. Visiting with friends (groups under 10 people) while following safe interaction guidelines was also not discouraged. EDIT: This is from the point of view of someone in the US; international laws vary as pointed out by replies.

No.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#345

Post by mc32 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

YarickR2 wrote: post #259

CydeWeys wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit to society as a whole is that human society literally continues to exist. If no one has children then society ceases to exist because there isn't a next generation. It's hard to think of anything that benefits society more than having children to comprise the next generation of society. And you know what's really bad for corporate profitability? Not having any workers in a few decades because conditions w…

What do you think of LGBTQ, then ? Fertility rates among them are near zero.

Large enough societies can carry people who don’t reproduce be it by choice or because of infertility or being LGBT. Same as we can accommodate a certain number of full time thinkers and artists who otherwise don’t produce tangible things. So it’s a function of what the demographics can handle. Smaller populations might require something like ancient Greeks did.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#346

Post by nicbou » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

a-nikolaev wrote: post #328

nicbou wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is made again and again in this thread, and it never got addressed. 1. There are already functional mechanisms for contribution. A single, childless person is already contributing more through their taxes. The government already heavily subsidises child-rearing. 2. Child-rearing is given an arbitrary pass that other equally charitable actions wouldn't get. A single, childless person couldn't let his com…

If you tried to take care of a baby or a toddler, you would see that it's like a second job in terms of how much time and effort it requires from you every day. Now imagine yourself doing all that x2 amount of work, would you ask for help or extra accommodations? It's not a model, a mental experiment, or a charitable action. It's the x2 amount of work you need to do, day and night, 365 days a year.

I am well aware of that. This is precisely why I chose not have children.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#347

Post by throwaway5792 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:05 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #180

dimitrios1 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just do yourself a favor and relearn basic human empathy again.

I have. I have a lot of empathy for children who are going hungry because their parents brought them into this world without a means to support them. I have a lot of empathy for children who are unwanted, ignored, and otherwise harmed by "inconvenienced" parents. I have no empathy - I have nothing but contempt - for the parents who bring those children into this world.

Try again.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#348

Post by MaximumYComb » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:05 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #147

mc32 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Parents are making sacrifices which benefit society as a whole. Those children the parents are taking care of now will be the ones who will provide for the one complaining now via taxes as well as services rendered to them. If anything, companies should be providing more childcare so that more women (as well as some men) will have less of a burden balancing career and caregiving. I see these people as being…

What I've seen is the complaints are largely coming from couples that want to raise kids while both parents work full time jobs. Asking for fewer hours so you can continue that lifestyle is asking your employer and fellow employees to subsidize your second income, not your ability to have and raise children. My coworkers with SAH spouses aren't feeling the burn anywhere near as badly -- it's just an extended summer f…

I'm a single parent working full time from home in addition to some university that's online too. My children are young, right at the beginning of their school experience (7 and 5). It's not too bad.

I spent years working my arse off after I became a single parent so I could have a career that also lets me be an involved parent. This year was meant to be my first relaxing year. It hasn't worked out that way but it's still an easier year for me than 2019 and 2018. I would go two months straight with 100-110 hours per week of time commitments.

Maybe I have an advantage because I'm used to not having free time. Home schooling is at most 30 hours per week but in reality far less unless your child has special needs. My 7 year old is mostly autonomous. Let's assume 40 hours per week of work. That's still only 70 hours per week. People might need to just manage their hours better each week. I do a lot of homeschooling on weekends, the work we missed during the week when my kids needed help but I was busy. I don't see any reason schooling on weekends would be an issue?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#349

Post by impendia » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:05 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #298

kevstev wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mid 30s childless man I completely agree. We essentially sent people home on a Friday, told them to figure out a work from home situation, and then they were told welp your kids aren't going to school either, and whatever childcare you had lined up has now vanished too- and this is all happening in the course of a few days at most. So now you have kids to worry about all day, home schooling to oversee, focusing…

IMO the real broken part of this system is that people are not getting legally-protected personal time. A big part of the resentment is that a person who chose to have children ends up being able to be excused from work to take care of children, while a person who has no children is not as easily excused to do what they want to do, because it is deemed low priority compared to children. We need to be prioritizing peo…

> "IMO the real broken part of this system..."

> "It's when people are working till 11pm..."

Says it all right there.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#350

Post by treis » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

rblatz wrote: post #293

treis wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>“The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them.” So then pay me 40% more and tell the parents not to look at my bowl. That's hypothetical because I have a small kid myself. But that quote is sucker talk. Demand that you are compensated for the value you provide because none of these mega corps give a shi…

There is a lot of cognitive dissonance in this post. This whole conversation is about mega corps giving a shit, and accommodating people who are having increased difficulty during COVID. You can't get mad that they are caring, and then in the same breath say they don't care.

Having childless people pick up the slack for no extra pay isn't caring.

And even that level of "caring" is not going to last.