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Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

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Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#91

It's simply depressing how parent/kid-hostile society has become... I'm not saying we need explosive population growth. But I feel one of the main purposes of society is raising and protecting children. If you're a human-future-optimist, you want some kind of generation that's better than us to continue on.... I'm not saying you NEED to have kids, but I feel it's part of society's collective duty to consider the next…

>It's simply depressing how parent/kid-hostile society has become...

I think the Pet Parent thing is part of that, albeit w/ a positive vibe.

I just found it odd that people suddenly started giving birth to animals and that no one found that noteworthy.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#92

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

"I'm thankful for all those people with kids who will (a) take care of the continuation of the human race"

lol gtfo

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#93
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you sympathize? Edit: For clarity, the comment is clearly unsympathetic.

You can recognize when things will be harder for some people than it is for others, but at the same time acknowledge that these are simply the consequences of different choices being made. I have no doubt it is harder for my coworkers with kids now than it is usually, but I also know that they chose to have kids, and knew that would mean that they’d have more “work” in some cases than if they didn’t have kids. But th…

Yes this is what I meant, thanks for clarifying.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#94
Come to the Midwest. Here's how we do it. First of all, you can't retire at 30 on an entry level engineer salary (poetic license taken). Second, there are no child care benefits.

Instead, parents with kids split things up. One parent (usually the one who was earning less anyway) dials down their career, perhaps by going part time. The other parent dials up, by competing for promotions. For instance, it's almost like clockwork that someone announces the birth of their first child, and shortly after that, they've become a project- or middle-manager, or they've gone to work somewhere else. A few years later, when their family life stabilizes, they might come back to engineering. That's what I did.

This is a known economic effect. More than half of workers will change jobs for higher pay shortly after their first kid is born. There was a study of unskilled single women in a poor neighborhood in Chicago. After adjusting for everything else, the ones with kids tended to work for higher pay, changed jobs more often, and worked further from home.

This is all pre-COVID of course, but is how things have worked for decades.

Is this a good thing? Well, it stratifies the career ladder quite noticeably. How do you make it so that people with kids aren't running the entire show? Likewise for society as a whole?

In my view, employer based child care benefits make about as much sense as employer based health care benefits.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither. The failure is with the team's manager. The team's leadership should have reduced the workload of the team. It starts at the top. I work at a (non-tech) Fortune 50 and the message from the CEO on down has been the same: take vacation, take care of your family, some priorities/projects for this year will not be met and that is fine.

>> The team's leadership should have reduced the workload of the team. This isn't always possible, especially given the target businesses that hang out here. This is just evading a tough question.

Then the leadership should plan around this, given covid has so far been an 8 month+ shitshow into the future. If leadership can't handle a chronic issue within the org then this is bad leadership.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#96
post #26

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> cancer patient gets extra time off so why don't I? In my experience they actually don't, and they aren't paid during the same period either. They are forced to take medical leave, and receive significantly reduced pay.

Depends on the state and employer, in California at a big tech firm you generally receive full pay for FMLA leave (since the employer will top up the reduced amount provided by the state).

But then it's the same with parental leave, which also depends on the state and employer.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the fact the education costs have skyrocketed since they went to school

So has the cost of caring for old people but they don't complain about that.

That's a brilliant point.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#98
The anti-natalism in tech is just totally unsustainable. What will it become, a race to hire the last remaining infertile young people? Who will provide new humans to replace them - other families that aren't in tech? Parents have a strong influence on the careers of their children - we expect to completely remove that influence, since we will have no parents in tech - and expect their children to discover tech careers of their own accord?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a team of 4 people. 2 have families, 2 don't. The ones that don't picked up the slack for the ones that did. Work quality was equal, but output was greater for the singles. The team has 2 slots for promotion. Do you ignore the fact that the single people put in more work or do you factor it in in the promotion decision?

How do you (legally) differentiate between people who put in less work because of their children and those who put in less work because they underperform?

Communication. Talk to your teammates, its usually pretty obvious if someone is bullshitting you.

Decent managers already know who their over- and under-performers are. Using "time at work" as a proxy for performance generally doesn't work well in general.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#100

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

The problem is, people without children are told (or required) to pick up the workload left behind when the coworkers having children taking (multiple) weeks off. For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

> For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

It's a global pandemic, by definition it's not a chronic problem.

I mean, look, we had this problem solved. That's what public education, daycare facilities, child care contractors, grandparents, etc... are for. And this system worked. And it's been disrupted.

That loss is real, but it's not the parents' fault that the pandemic happened either. Why should they be (per your analysis) the ones to bear the costs of the disruption to their particular (and extremely common!) lifestyle?

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