Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#21

Post by liability » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:11 PM UTC

rblatz wrote: post #2

A lot of this feels like people looking into their neighbor's bowl to see if they are getting more than them. Love him or hate him Louis C.K. has a great quote here “The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them.” Times are tough, don't blame the parents for what they have to do, blame your management if…

I generally agree with that sentiment, but I'm not sure it's persuasive when expressed by somebody who will never have to worry about his bowl being empty (e.g. a successful celebrity like Louis C.K.)

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#22

Post by strictnein » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:11 PM UTC

pyronik19 wrote: post #9

rblatz wrote: post #2

A lot of this feels like people looking into their neighbor's bowl to see if they are getting more than them. Love him or hate him Louis C.K. has a great quote here “The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them.” Times are tough, don't blame the parents for what they have to do, blame your management if…

There is a team of 4 people. 2 have families, 2 don't. The ones that don't picked up the slack for the ones that did. Work quality was equal, but output was greater for the singles. The team has 2 slots for promotion. Do you ignore the fact that the single people put in more work or do you factor it in in the promotion decision?

Neither. The failure is with the team's manager. The team's leadership should have reduced the workload of the team.

It starts at the top. I work at a (non-tech) Fortune 50 and the message from the CEO on down has been the same: take vacation, take care of your family, some priorities/projects for this year will not be met and that is fine.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#23

Post by Shivetya » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:11 PM UTC

Isn't it just bizarre how people can have children and not expect it to disrupt their lives. They are children, they require your engagement, this is part of the deal. Tech companies should offer the same time off to all employees whether they have children or not. Children should not be allowed to be bargaining chip to obtain more from others. Your choice. To be honest having children out weighs any negative impact it has on career progression and if you don't understand that you should have not have had children to begin with.

Oddly this is little different than what some people do with pets, they are fine and wonderful until they realize they require time, attention, and money.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#24

Post by alex_anglin » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:11 PM UTC

goldenchrome wrote: post #6

I sympathize with the parents but this is just how life goes. If you have kids, you’re going to be more occupied than people without kids since we all have limited time on this Earth. And of course your career will be negatively impacted. There are good things about having kids and bad things. This is one of those potential bad things. If you don’t want to deal with this possibility then simply don’t have kids.

How do you sympathize?

Edit: For clarity, the comment is clearly unsympathetic.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#25

Post by Reedx » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:12 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

Only after having a kid did I fully realize just how much time and freedom I had.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#26

Post by codemac » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:12 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

> cancer patient gets extra time off so why don't I?

In my experience they actually don't, and they aren't paid during the same period either. They are forced to take medical leave, and receive significantly reduced pay.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#27

Post by wffurr » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:12 PM UTC

mmm_grayons wrote: post #11

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

Well, there's a good argument to be made that having children is much more of a choice than having cancer. And yes, it's natural to be selfish, because employment benefits are at least something of a zero-sum game. More for one often means less for another. I could easily argue that those who demand extra benefits because of a personal decision they made (having children) are more selfish than those who resent that t…

Society doesn't exist without children. Child care is right up there with fire departments for things you, personally, as a childless person whose house has not burned down, need to exist in order to live in society, and not just a hermit in the woods.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#28

Post by Kalium » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:12 PM UTC

asciident wrote: post #19

pyronik19 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a team of 4 people. 2 have families, 2 don't. The ones that don't picked up the slack for the ones that did. Work quality was equal, but output was greater for the singles. The team has 2 slots for promotion. Do you ignore the fact that the single people put in more work or do you factor it in in the promotion decision?

In this scenario, is there a way to handle the promotions such that no one is upset? I can't think of one. Maybe put them on different tracks -- those who took "parental flexibility" can get promoted, but it occurs later, and the money saved from that deferred promotion gets given to the singles who put in extra time/effort? Not sure, just brainstorming.

Now you're in what is probably textbook discrimination territory.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#29

Post by ChuckMcM » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:12 PM UTC

FWIW, in the Bay Area at least, there have always been companies with fairly toxic cultures that impute "shame" on people who go home early or choose family events over company events.

Because technical people have generally (although not universally) employable at multiple companies, it was has been possible to leave a company once you figured out they were 'dinging' you for spending too much time with your family. It is also why I found the rationale for leaving of "going to spend more time with my family" somewhat painful as it implies that company would not support that choice while still employing you. (and yes, I know its a euphemism more than an actual reason but still).

One need look no further than the "controversy" over parental leave to understand that American companies have a fairly broken value system when it comes to their employee's well being.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#30

Post by save_ferris » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 8:12 PM UTC

liability wrote: post #8

I suspect people are less inclined to empathize with people they don't see face-to-face every day. Mass-WFH could cause a general drop in empathy, particularly when the circumstances are so stressful.

I’ve noticed the opposite, actually.

Working from home has meant that I often see parents interacting with their children or spouses during calls, I get to see another facet of my coworkers lives that I couldn’t before. Generally, I really appreciate this perspective, it’s very humanizing.

The lack of empathy around parents long preceded COVID, it has everything to do with the anxiety-driven “ship or die” culture that’s prevalent in startup culture.