PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence • Hacker News Board

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#101

Post by roywiggins » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

dshpala wrote: post #88

I think that protesters didn't think it through enough. Yes, Lukashenko is an awful guy, but what is the alternative? Protesters say they are pro Russia - but in my opinion this is a grave mistake, and Belarus will soon find itself as a Russia-controlled state.

Before all this Putin was making noises about integrating the two countries anyway:

> Moscow offered Minsk economic benefits in December if it complied with a 1999 deal that envisioned a union state with a common currency, legal system and a joint defense and foreign policy.

> The Russian-Belarussian economic confederacy entails the creation of a single tax code, civil code and list of foreign trade rules, in addition to unified oil, gas and electricity market regulators, by 2022, Kommersant reported Monday.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/09/16/russia-belarus-to-...

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#102

Post by epistasis » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #31

brundolf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Possibly heading for a civil war stoked by the country's president in both cases (one trying to paint his trickster self as a man of law and order, one trying to hold on to power after yet-another mock election). Though the parts of the protests we get to see from Belarus look far more civilized than the pictures coming in from the US.

Nearly all protest in the US has been peaceful, but those protests get zero media coverage.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#103

Post by content_sesh » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #48

pstuart wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US protests are being sabotaged with violence from outsiders to delegitimize them.

Agreed, this is why portland protesters are demanding these outsiders (the national guard) leave.

They're mostly concerned with Feds more than NG, but your point is spot on

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#104

Post by maerF0x0 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #92

maerF0x0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He openly talks about his autocratic desires to be honest I've seen it as his form of jest, where he's constantly tryin to rile up his opponents. And he can get away with it because he knows his supporters have all the guns (at least amongst civilians). We'll see what the military does and if that institution is solid.

When he tells you who he is, believe him.

I have to say this is generally horrible advice, especially in politics. Humans rarely are honest.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#105

Post by Kinrany » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

perfunctory wrote: post #77

mensetmanusman wrote: post #67

Unfortunately, history tells us that almost all major gains in freedom come, at one point, through violent conflict/sacrifice. If one side (an authoritarian oppressor) is not afraid to use violence, and the other is prevented from using any response, the oppressor will win. This is why major changes usually require civil war. This is also why authoritarians definitely do not want their population to have access to we…

Major changes sometimes involve civil war, not usually . Statistically non-violent rebellions are more successful than the violent ones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJSehRlU34w

> Statistically non-violent rebellions are more successful than the violent ones.

Countries that are already mostly democratic don't need violent rebellions?

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#106

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #33

some_random wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't compare protests like this, it never looks good.

RoW thinks Portland is borderline civil war anyway. Only a true American could conceive of hundreds of masked, rifle-bearing men marching around and clashing with other groups as a protest.

Sure, but this seems like something where the Americans have it right. Despite all the guns, Portland doesn't seem any more violent right now than, say, Paris during the yellow vest protests.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#107

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

exo762 wrote: post #32

brundolf wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Protests in Belarus are way more civilized than recent protests in both Portland and the rest of USA. The difference is stark, shocking, and puzzling.

I think we should be pretty skeptical of these kind of broad generalizations. How do you know you're seeing a representative sample of protests in either country?

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#108

Post by Mirioron » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

pstuart wrote: post #96

pstuart wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just those outsiders, but Proud Bois and other White Nationalists.

Hmmmm. I just do nazi why this is getting downvoted.

Because the situation is (probably) a lot more nuanced than what you paint it as.

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#109

Post by trhway » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

Molly555 wrote: post #2

Well, as far as I know, monstrous things are happening in this country right now. What is the cost of a complete disconnection of the Internet throughout the country? I can't even imagine how many millions of dollars it cost the authorities. I also heard that people are afraid to follow the news through the Telegram channels, because it is simply not safe. https://utopia.fans/tools/clash-of-the-titans-telegram-vs-wh.…

Recently even Lukashenko recognized limits of his power against the social media:

In Russian: https://t.me/rt_russian/44353 (translation below is mine, ask Google Translate for the skipped parts and/or for a better translation :)

"... I warned my senior friend and brother Putin - it is impossible to fight against.

Why? - How are you going to fight Telegram channels? Do you have a capability to block the channels? Nobody has such capability, even the ones who created all that web. Americans. You see what is happening there. And telegram-channels are playing the main role there too. [...skip...]

To remove the Internet and like that ... Even if Internet is removed today, the telegram-channels will be working from Poland. So, don't you get relaxed. You also have some specific political events coming, and may be right out of the blue..."

Re: PandaDoc employees arrested in Belarus after founders protest against violence

#110

Post by vvpan » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #67

Unfortunately, history tells us that almost all major gains in freedom come, at one point, through violent conflict/sacrifice. If one side (an authoritarian oppressor) is not afraid to use violence, and the other is prevented from using any response, the oppressor will win. This is why major changes usually require civil war. This is also why authoritarians definitely do not want their population to have access to we…

I think this is a very disputable point. I've seen studies supporting both. For example here is study attesting to the opposite of your point: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-s...