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'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

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Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#51
In many parts of the United States when you call 911, you're lucky if anyone shows up within an hour. It's a couple hours to get to a Wal-Mart or a store. It's difficult to get anyone to drive 40 minutes outside the nearest town and navigate unmarked dirt roads to do basic plumbing or home repairs.

As a result, people have to learn to repair things, make things, use a gun, do first aid, lay shingles, hang drywall, pour concrete, solder pipe, weld, change oil, replace an alternator, lay PVC pipe, etc.

People in the community learn emergency medicine and how to manage a structure or brush fire by volunteering with the local volunteer fire/EMS, because that's the only show in town.

Roads wash out in the rainy season, so 4x4 is an absolute necessity. People learn to gauge sand you can drive through in 2x4, sand you can drive through in 4x4 and sand you just can't drive through by eyeballing it.

I grew up in a very remote part of the California desert and everyone was like that. It's just what you have to do to get by because you keep finding yourself in situations where you need to call on these types of skills, and if you're living out there you have a lot of free time without interruption or distraction to learn the skills. Lots of people moved out from the city, and over the years they picked up a lot of those skills and became extremely self-sufficient.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#52
post #19
post #5

This reads like the scientific version of a stereotype. Maybe kind of interesting, but extremely prone to misinterpetation, over-generalization, and potentially prejudice.

The contrary is equally plausible: that we might dismiss a scientifically-justified generalization about a group of people as a stereotype. Conclusions should take additional care, but populations are different in important ways.

[deleted]

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#53
> However, "openness to experience" is much higher, and the most pronounced personality trait in mountain dwellers.

> "Openness is a strong predictor of residential mobility," said Götz. "A willingness to move your life in pursuit of goals such as economic affluence and personal freedom drove many original North American frontier settlers."

> those who left their early mountain home are still consistently less agreeable, conscientious and extravert, although no such effects were observed for neuroticism and openness.

I have difficulty reconciling these statements.

- mountain dwellers have higher openness to experience

- openness to experience is a predictor for residential mobility

- but the people who move away from mountain regions _don't_ have higher openness to experience (but stay disagreeable, unconscientious and introverted)?

I would have expected the selection bias to show up in the other direction: I would expect the people who stay put to have lower openness to experience, and the people who move to have higher openness to experience.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#55

Well, to whatever extent this is true, I'd like to know -- 1) Whether this is something very special to the US, versus happens in every country, and is a fact of life in remote / non-city areas, and 2) Does this call for a certain approach to how to effectively govern or design public policy if there is a east/west or city/suburban vs. rural social divide? Attitudes in themselves are not a problem. Inability to have…

> They describe the effect of mountain areas on personality as "small but robust"

The article doesn't quantify anything, so I'm more prone to believe it's hyped noise than anything real. But this phrase is a strong indicator that any attempt to use the findings in widespread policy will have bad results.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#57
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>perhaps everything between California and Oklahoma = Midwest If you're right and that's the definition some people use, I'm not surprised they're confused. Considering I see most people using "midwest" referring to places like Ohio and Michigan. I've always preferred "Great Plains" when trying to describe my general location to folks online. You say "I live in the midwest" and everyone seems to assume you're in Ohio…

Yeah I try to avoid "midwest" at all, except when being vague is a goal. The distinction between "Great Lakes" & "Great Plains" seems quite useful both geographically and culturally and "midwest" seems to just splotch right over that boundary. I agree with your western boundary, though I'd probably just call it "The Rockies" myself, and let Nevadans and Utahns get absorbed either into "West Coast" or "Southwest" as t…

Utah is not West Coast. As rosseloh said, it's the West. (And I agree - I draw the line at Denver.)

I don't agree with "Midwest" where people place it on the east side, though. Take Pittsburgh, for instance. Look at a map, people. It's not "west", and it's not even "mid". It's East. "Mid" starts at Chicago.

(Pittsburgh was once midwest, but it's not 1870 any more.)

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#58

I live in a mountain town and it's literally 'Wild West': http://northwesttraveladvisor.com/northwest-vacation/western...

Winthrop is about as literally Wild West as Leavenworth, WA [0] is literally Bavarian.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leavenworth%2C_Washington

(As explanation, both towns decided to become a "theme town", for lack of a better phrase, around the same time in the 60s-70s. Winthrop was inspired by Leavenworth, which in turn was arguably inspired by Solvang, CA.)

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#59
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like they're talking about the Rockies to me as well. I think the thought is perhaps everything between California and Oklahoma = Midwest.

>perhaps everything between California and Oklahoma = Midwest If you're right and that's the definition some people use, I'm not surprised they're confused. Considering I see most people using "midwest" referring to places like Ohio and Michigan. I've always preferred "Great Plains" when trying to describe my general location to folks online. You say "I live in the midwest" and everyone seems to assume you're in Ohio…

You could say anything between the Great Divide and the Eastern divide is "midwest" and nobody would look at you funny.

https://www.theadventurecompany.com/continental-divide-in-co...

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skepical of putting a scientific veneer over such analysis. If that's the point you'd like to make, go ahead and make it, but leave science out of it.

I'm not sure what you mean. Why shouldn't the methods of science be used to tackle these kinds of questions?

Because they lead to a false sense of certainty and inappropriately appeal to authority.

These questions are complex. The premises and framing are critical. The surrounding evidence that's not measured is probably much more important than whatever the scientist is able to actually measure.

All living beings, including humans, are a mix of strengths and weaknesses in careful balance. If a martian scientist were to look at humans they would probably say something like:

"Not very strong, not very fast, eats a lot, no armor, horns, or poison. Can't fly. We predict that wolves will hunt them to extinction in a few decades."

But obviously the martians didn't measure our brains. Evolution of living beings tends to create these exceptions that throw off simpistic analysis.

What are you forgetting to measure that will completely throw off your conclusions?

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