FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices • Hacker News Board

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#11

Post by colejohnson66 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #9

StillBored wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. That is because they could pre-populate much of the W2/1099/stock sales/etc data since its all being reported to the IRS from other organizations. For the vast majority of people it could be as simple as logging into a web site and clicking "no" to a bunch of questions like "did you have more than 20k of medi…

>>>And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. Someone has never worked in government contracting or developing Software from Government Committee a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Not a easy to use streamline system If you want something to be inefficient, have the…

Here’s the thing though: the IRS already has all the information they need for a majority of the population. Why does everyone need to fill out forms themselves only for the government a few years later to say you did it wrong?

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#12

Post by syshum » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #2

Not sure I understand the hate for TurboTax. Literally not a single person is forced to use it. I do use it and it's a very good product for the most part. Perhaps energy should be directed at the actual tax code complexity rather than software built to help navigate filing. Ted Cruz's tax plan would have practically eliminated the need for TurboTax-type software. https://taxfoundation.org/details-and-analysis-senato…

I 100% agree, to bad all you will get in response to your comment is how it is evil companies that prevent the noble and universally good government from helping the people.

Unfortunately very few people seem to understand that government, intrinsically, is inefficient and bad at everything it does. This can not be avoided or changed it is the natural state of a monopoly.

They seem to be able to recognize that when a large corporation that has become monopoly that is bad for people, however they fail to recognize that government is the worst kind of monopoly as unlike a corporation, they have the legal authority to put you in a cage if you refuse them, and kill you if you resit the governments attempt to put you in that cage.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#13

Post by save_ferris » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #9

StillBored wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. That is because they could pre-populate much of the W2/1099/stock sales/etc data since its all being reported to the IRS from other organizations. For the vast majority of people it could be as simple as logging into a web site and clicking "no" to a bunch of questions like "did you have more than 20k of medi…

>>>And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. Someone has never worked in government contracting or developing Software from Government Committee a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Not a easy to use streamline system If you want something to be inefficient, have the…

> If you want something to be inefficient, have the government do it

Would you rather have a system that’s inefficiently built by a government or one efficiently built by a private company that illegally extracts fees from users, as the FTC alleges Intuit has done? What’s the point of being obsessed with “efficiency” when the company screws end users anyway?

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#14

Post by syshum » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #13

syshum wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. Someone has never worked in government contracting or developing Software from Government Committee a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Not a easy to use streamline system If you want something to be inefficient, have the…

> If you want something to be inefficient, have the government do it Would you rather have a system that’s inefficiently built by a government or one efficiently built by a private company that illegally extracts fees from users, as the FTC alleges Intuit has done? What’s the point of being obsessed with “efficiency” when the company screws end users anyway?

That is a false dilemma, I know this will shock you, but it is possible to have private companies that do not illegally extract fees from users, and at the same time not have government created software....

I support the FTC's actions to go after intuit, but I have filled my taxes every year for many decades and not used Turbo Tax.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#15

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #11

syshum wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. Someone has never worked in government contracting or developing Software from Government Committee a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Not a easy to use streamline system If you want something to be inefficient, have the…

Here’s the thing though: the IRS already has all the information they need for a majority of the population. Why does everyone need to fill out forms themselves only for the government a few years later to say you did it wrong?

Because some people are irrationally biased against government providing services or collecting taxes in general. These are ingrained belief systems being challenged.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#16

Post by StillBored » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #9

StillBored wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. That is because they could pre-populate much of the W2/1099/stock sales/etc data since its all being reported to the IRS from other organizations. For the vast majority of people it could be as simple as logging into a web site and clicking "no" to a bunch of questions like "did you have more than 20k of medi…

>>>And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. Someone has never worked in government contracting or developing Software from Government Committee a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Not a easy to use streamline system If you want something to be inefficient, have the…

I have, and sometimes it goes well, but you don't hear about those cases.

OTOH, you have to remember that the IRS is already developing a fairly complex bit of software which allows the tax companies to "e-file" the tax returns. Then they are verifying those companies results in house against the data they already have. At which point, apparently the returns are either rejected, or assigned some kind of weight for a human inspector to come along and review for whether a formal audit should be undertaken.

So, its quite possible that cutting out the e-file portion and replacing it with a webUI actually simplifies things.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#17

Post by ciarannolan » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #9

StillBored wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. That is because they could pre-populate much of the W2/1099/stock sales/etc data since its all being reported to the IRS from other organizations. For the vast majority of people it could be as simple as logging into a web site and clicking "no" to a bunch of questions like "did you have more than 20k of medi…

>>>And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. Someone has never worked in government contracting or developing Software from Government Committee a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Not a easy to use streamline system If you want something to be inefficient, have the…

> a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets

Consider that your opinion on what is "universally hated" is mostly shaped by the sources of information that you consume. Yours happens to be wrong. Overall the country views ObamaCare ~50% favorably, with some specific parts close to 90% approval.

> Following Republican efforts to repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in the summer of 2017, KFF Health Tracking Polls have found a slight uptick in overall favorability towards the 2010 health care law. The most recent KFF Tracking Poll shows over half of the public (52%) hold favorable opinions of the ACA while about four in ten (41%) hold a negative opinion of the law. [1]

> Some 55% of Americans support the ACA, a record high since the law went into effect a decade ago, according to a recent report by the Kaiser Family Foundation, while 37% of the 130,000 respondents in the nationally representative poll hold unfavorable views. [2]

> But the election of Donald Trump and efforts by Republicans to repeal the ACA have boosted the law’s popularity. Since November 2016, on average, 49.4% of the public has had a positive view of the law, compared with 41.6% who view it unfavorably. [3]

[1] https://www.kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/6-charts-abou...

[2] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-affordable-care-act-is...

[3] https://www.ajmc.com/view/how-has-public-opinion-on-the-aca-...

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#18

Post by rayiner » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

ciarannolan wrote: post #17

syshum wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. Someone has never worked in government contracting or developing Software from Government Committee a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Not a easy to use streamline system If you want something to be inefficient, have the…

> a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Consider that your opinion on what is "universally hated" is mostly shaped by the sources of information that you consume. Yours happens to be wrong. Overall the country views ObamaCare ~50% favorably, with some specific parts close to 90% approval. > Following Republican efforts to repeal the Af…

> Consider that your opinion on what is "universally hated" is mostly shaped by the sources of information that you consume. Yours happens to be wrong. Overall the country views ObamaCare ~50% favorably, with some specific parts close to 90% approval

I support the ACA, but when you implement the benefits in a law and repeal or ignore most of the new taxes and mandates, that will happen.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#19

Post by hellotomyrars » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #9

StillBored wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. That is because they could pre-populate much of the W2/1099/stock sales/etc data since its all being reported to the IRS from other organizations. For the vast majority of people it could be as simple as logging into a web site and clicking "no" to a bunch of questions like "did you have more than 20k of medi…

>>>And just to add to this, the IRS software could be significantly easier to use than the commercial offerings. Someone has never worked in government contracting or developing Software from Government Committee a IRS Tax Software would look more than the universally hated Unemployment Systems, or the government healthcare markets Not a easy to use streamline system If you want something to be inefficient, have the…

You mean those universally hated unemployement systems, the like one in Florida which was intentionally set up to fail and be as hard as possible to qualify for and interact with so that the real, hard-working Americans don't have to pay to support those deadbeat lowlifes who don't have a job?

The government is more than capable of accomplishing tasks. There is no inherent reason why government is incapable of doing anything but a corporation is capable of doing everything!

If you design a system to fail from the outset and it doesn't work, then they achieved the goal. So really, the government nailed it. And the better part is they nailed it for people who feel the way you do. It's literally a self-fulfilling prophecy of politically-motivated people who don't believe in the ability of the government to get anything done working as hard as possible to make sure that the government doesn't do a good job.

Re: FTC Is Investigating Intuit over TurboTax Practices

#20

Post by milofeynman » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #2

Not sure I understand the hate for TurboTax. Literally not a single person is forced to use it. I do use it and it's a very good product for the most part. Perhaps energy should be directed at the actual tax code complexity rather than software built to help navigate filing. Ted Cruz's tax plan would have practically eliminated the need for TurboTax-type software. https://taxfoundation.org/details-and-analysis-senato…

The hate comes from anyone who understands intuit lobbying against the interest of the US taxpayer. Instead of the US government acting like every other 1st world government and giving us a pre-calculated tax bill since they already know what we owe we're forced to spend hours tracking down documents and hoping we didn't mess up and get audited.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/opinion/filing-taxes-in-j...