A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe • Hacker News Board

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#71

Post by kube-system » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 1:54 PM UTC

mikequinlan wrote: post #9

Tajnymag wrote: post #4

After reading the Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names, I wonder, what would you recommend as a universal way to store users's names? There seems to be two main options: Store the name in a single field, be correct but lose the option to sort the names reliably. Store the name in two fields, have the users bend over our western form standards but be able to search and sort easily. Do you have any real life expe…

You should store the information that you actually need for your use cases. https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names

The only hard part is understanding the use cases before you start collecting data.

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#72

Post by silicon2401 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #64

jmnicolas wrote: post #62

> My system will never have to deal with names from China I work in a small French town where Chinese people were quite rare until a few years ago. Their passports have a translation of their names in Latin alphabet, same for Russians. However one day one of my user told me "hey I can't find some customers in your app, but I'm 100% sure I recorded them previously. Funnily they're all Chinese". It turns out that to av…

I used to know of someone who’s middle name (not just initial) was “E”. One letter.

Just like Harry S Truman "Since the S did not stand for a name, Harry didn't use a period after it for most of his life."

https://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com/key-west/president-tr...

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#73

Post by kube-system » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #20

Lists of falsehoods can be very useful and enlightening (especially about common things like dates, names and email addresses), but with the "falsehoods programmers believe about falsehoods" it becomes just an exercise in pedantry.

Knowing the falsehoods is useful, knowing when and how to apply that knowledge is what makes someone an effective engineer.

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#74

Post by liability » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

Akronymus wrote: post #56

bregma wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are cultures in which the honorific is required. There are cultures in which it is not only not required but despised. I have encountered too many web forms in which a gendered honorific is required input, and you must select from a drop-down list. The people who design those forms are second in line to be put against the wall when the revolution comes. Right behind the people who design free-form input for int…

> I have encountered too many web forms in which a gendered honorific is required input, and you must select from a drop-down list. We have 3 gender options, mandated by law, in a dropdown which makes sense for our company. But we don't mandate honoriffics, nor do we use a gendered form where possible. And all input goes through an employee. (We are a worker leasing company, ONLY active in Austria) > Right behind the…

What is the obstensible purpose of this law that requires you to collect and store information about peoples' gender? I can't fathom why a legislature would ever think that necessary. It just doesn't seem like useful information in most contexts, almost like asking for astrological signs and blood type. I've seen those on forms before and they seem to serve no real purpose.

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#75

Post by silicon2401 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

jmnicolas wrote: post #62

> My system will never have to deal with names from China I work in a small French town where Chinese people were quite rare until a few years ago. Their passports have a translation of their names in Latin alphabet, same for Russians. However one day one of my user told me "hey I can't find some customers in your app, but I'm 100% sure I recorded them previously. Funnily they're all Chinese". It turns out that to av…

This happens with western names as well. Jo, Bo, Malcolm X.

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#76

Post by Muromec » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

Uberphallus wrote: post #66

dmitriid wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it's usually solved, and it's a very awkward workaround: - there are cases when the father isn't known. Or even the surname isn't known (people dealing with asylum seekers run into these issues all the time) - Foreign names are not easily converted to patronymics. Russian has adapted Russian names to this scheme: Ivan —> Ivánovich, Vasily -> Vasilevich, Ilya -> Ilyich (note the suffixes -[ov]ich, -[ev]ich,…

> Once you get foreign names, this becomes weird even with European names Wait until you think about multi-heritage names. My son is Spanish AND Ukrainian. Ukrainian naming customs are like Russian, then in Spanish you have two last names. This breaks down as follows: in Spanish the second last name is that of the mom, but in slavic naming customs it changes according to the gender. So in Spain he won't have the last…

>So he's finally name+last name+second last name for Spain, name + ugly patronymic + long ass, unique in the world last name for Ukraine.

Oh, dealing with authorities should be fun. Last time I had been there reissuing passport for my son, ДМС officials suddenly realized, that his patronymic is somehow present in a demographic registry without being present in any primary records (birth cert, translations, applications etc). Then they spent solid 30 minutes trying to find nonexistent number of said birth certificate.

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#77

Post by trent_lott » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #72

colejohnson66 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to know of someone who’s middle name (not just initial) was “E”. One letter.

Just like Harry S Truman "Since the S did not stand for a name, Harry didn't use a period after it for most of his life." https://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com/key-west/president-tr...

Similarly Oppenheimer, of the Manhattan project

He thought assuming that leading J made him seem more posh and WASPy

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#78

Post by Uberphallus » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 2:27 PM UTC

Muromec wrote: post #76

Uberphallus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you get foreign names, this becomes weird even with European names Wait until you think about multi-heritage names. My son is Spanish AND Ukrainian. Ukrainian naming customs are like Russian, then in Spanish you have two last names. This breaks down as follows: in Spanish the second last name is that of the mom, but in slavic naming customs it changes according to the gender. So in Spain he won't have the last…

>So he's finally name+last name+second last name for Spain, name + ugly patronymic + long ass, unique in the world last name for Ukraine. Oh, dealing with authorities should be fun. Last time I had been there reissuing passport for my son, ДМС officials suddenly realized, that his patronymic is somehow present in a demographic registry without being present in any primary records (birth cert, translations, applicatio…

Yeah, on top he was born in France, and the consular services of either country basically say, "he'll have the name French authorities let you write"; plus patronymic, if wanted, in case of Ukraine.

Luckily we had a public servant that was familiar with naming conventions of both countries and his name is the one his mom and I agreed respected both naming conventions the most.

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#79

Post by superhuzza » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 2:28 PM UTC

jmnicolas wrote: post #62

> My system will never have to deal with names from China I work in a small French town where Chinese people were quite rare until a few years ago. Their passports have a translation of their names in Latin alphabet, same for Russians. However one day one of my user told me "hey I can't find some customers in your app, but I'm 100% sure I recorded them previously. Funnily they're all Chinese". It turns out that to av…

Interesting, now that you mention it I can't think of any French names that are 2 letters long. But in English we have tons, "Ed Mo" is a perfectly plausible name.

Re: A curated list of falsehoods programmers believe

#80

Post by dmitriid » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

Uberphallus wrote: post #66

dmitriid wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it's usually solved, and it's a very awkward workaround: - there are cases when the father isn't known. Or even the surname isn't known (people dealing with asylum seekers run into these issues all the time) - Foreign names are not easily converted to patronymics. Russian has adapted Russian names to this scheme: Ivan —> Ivánovich, Vasily -> Vasilevich, Ilya -> Ilyich (note the suffixes -[ov]ich, -[ev]ich,…

> Once you get foreign names, this becomes weird even with European names Wait until you think about multi-heritage names. My son is Spanish AND Ukrainian. Ukrainian naming customs are like Russian, then in Spanish you have two last names. This breaks down as follows: in Spanish the second last name is that of the mom, but in slavic naming customs it changes according to the gender. So in Spain he won't have the last…

There are also cases of transliterating names. Belarus insists on their internal schemes, so Евгений becomes Yauheni (to match Belorussian version of the name, Яўген) when it should become at least Eugene.