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On finally learning to program at the age of 40

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Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#61

Post by swyx »

darkteflon wrote: post #12

I'm in this boat. Finally started programming in 2018 at age 38 after a lifetime of playing around with computers as a hobby (thanks, dad!) and a first career in a completely unrelated field, as an attorney. The linked article is about learning for pleasure, but there are also challenges associated with trying to enter the field as a second career. The technical complexity, of course, and the scale of what needs to b…

learned to code at 30 here after a previous life in finance. doing well 4 years on. if i can help anyone in this thread just reply!

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#62

Post by austincheney »

m0zg wrote: post #48
darkteflon wrote: post #12

I'm in this boat. Finally started programming in 2018 at age 38 after a lifetime of playing around with computers as a hobby (thanks, dad!) and a first career in a completely unrelated field, as an attorney. The linked article is about learning for pleasure, but there are also challenges associated with trying to enter the field as a second career. The technical complexity, of course, and the scale of what needs to b…

If you don't mind me asking, why would one give up a cushy, well paid attorney career and choose software engineering? Software engineering compensation _tops out_ below where an experienced attorney compensation _begins_. The least I've ever paid a lawyer was $250/hr.

To be fair lawyers are worth more than senior software developers, but not too much more. That $250-$750 per hour is the business rate not the profit that goes to the attorney. If an attorney works at a large firm most of that goes back to the firm. If the attorney goes out of their own they have personal business expenses to account for.

As a software developer I bring home more than some attorneys I have met. I am not working a FAANG making buckets of cash either.

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#63

Post by swyx »

m0zg wrote: post #48
darkteflon wrote: post #12

I'm in this boat. Finally started programming in 2018 at age 38 after a lifetime of playing around with computers as a hobby (thanks, dad!) and a first career in a completely unrelated field, as an attorney. The linked article is about learning for pleasure, but there are also challenges associated with trying to enter the field as a second career. The technical complexity, of course, and the scale of what needs to b…

If you don't mind me asking, why would one give up a cushy, well paid attorney career and choose software engineering? Software engineering compensation _tops out_ below where an experienced attorney compensation _begins_. The least I've ever paid a lawyer was $250/hr.

IANAL but just to point out a couple obvious points:

- the lawyer doesn't receive the full 250, half of it(?) goes to business/partnership

- afaik many lawyers under-bill their hours, i'm not sure why (beyond "competition") but it's a common practice

- the job itself may not be enjoyable at some point and you may desire more creative pursuits

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#64

Post by nullsense »

shoo wrote: post #57
nullsense wrote: post #52

I remember discovering QBasic as a kid and being totally absorbed in it. I couldn't understand what an array was, so that halted my progress. I rediscovered it as a teenager in highschool and wound up making a basic platform game with a mess of shitty spaghetti code goto statements and drawing lines on the screen. It was great. My dad wanted to encourage me but didn't know how, so he got me a C++ book from the librar…

> discovering QBasic as a kid and being totally absorbed in it. I couldn't understand what an array was i started off programming with qbasic as well -- i remember when i finally figured out what arrays were and how to use them -- now if i wanted to animate many enemies/projectiles i didn't need to keep copying and pasting and defining more and more variables for each new entity! magic! at some point i got hold of a…

Haha amazing.

I remember one of my first real programs in uni after figuring out enough programming to make something but not to make it well.

I wrote this calculator for the various math and physics problems I had at the time and it had a nested menu system where when you clicked on a menu item it added that particular calculator/equation to a window pane.

It was an absolute rats nest, but boy was it good.

It's pretty incredible how you can make working software out of both well crafted code and absolute spaghetti.

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#65

Post by auggierose »

nullsense wrote: post #52

I remember discovering QBasic as a kid and being totally absorbed in it. I couldn't understand what an array was, so that halted my progress. I rediscovered it as a teenager in highschool and wound up making a basic platform game with a mess of shitty spaghetti code goto statements and drawing lines on the screen. It was great. My dad wanted to encourage me but didn't know how, so he got me a C++ book from the librar…

Yeah, QBasic was my first as well. Actually, it was my second. I started with .BAT files on MS-DOS :-) I spent about half a year until I figured out how to write and run a BAT file and about the same time for how to run a QBasic program, so after that I had a really high pain threshold for learning :-D

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#66

Post by ApolloRising »

Stratoscope wrote: post #50
sgt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity I ended up on your LinkedIn page. What a truly impressive resume. You have been exposed to such an incredible variety of companies and technologies over 50+ years. If this FAANG company doesn't sign you up, it's truly their loss.

Wow, I don't know how to thank you enough for that word of encouragement. I am really grateful after a long week of interviews and a much-too-hot weekend here in the Bay Area. But shhhh... We're not supposed to tell anyone that it's been 50+ years! Right? The advice I usually get is to remove everything from more than 5 years ago, maybe 10 at the very most, otherwise someone might think I'm old! ;-) Yeah, I don't buy…

Did you have trouble getting past the HR filter? I recently started on a similar journey and am curious how you managed the non coding portion to get your feet somewhat in the door.

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#67

Post by Grustaf »

Austin_Conlon wrote: post #15
usrnm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used to think the same thing about Objective C

Seems like it’s going to be many years before Objective-C is no longer viable, and there’s a lot of it to maintain (especially Apple’s). I think the only Swift-exclusive frameworks are SwiftUI, Combine, and WidgetKit.

It would be pretty crazy to learn only objective c today, unless you want to go after the legacy market specifically, like someone learning Cobol to get bank contracts.

Maybe it suits some people but for most people it’s sad and frustrating to work with old messy systems in obsolete languages when there’s a shiny new one that’s objectively much better in almost every way.

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#68

Post by shoo »

nullsense wrote: post #64
shoo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discovering QBasic as a kid and being totally absorbed in it. I couldn't understand what an array was i started off programming with qbasic as well -- i remember when i finally figured out what arrays were and how to use them -- now if i wanted to animate many enemies/projectiles i didn't need to keep copying and pasting and defining more and more variables for each new entity! magic! at some point i got hold of a…

Haha amazing. I remember one of my first real programs in uni after figuring out enough programming to make something but not to make it well. I wrote this calculator for the various math and physics problems I had at the time and it had a nested menu system where when you clicked on a menu item it added that particular calculator/equation to a window pane. It was an absolute rats nest, but boy was it good. It's pret…

> pretty incredible how you can make working software out of both well crafted code and absolute spaghetti

yup. c.f. James Hague's "Write Code Like You Just Learned How to Program" https://prog21.dadgum.com/87.html

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#69

Post by VamosArgentina »

swyx wrote: post #61
darkteflon wrote: post #12

I'm in this boat. Finally started programming in 2018 at age 38 after a lifetime of playing around with computers as a hobby (thanks, dad!) and a first career in a completely unrelated field, as an attorney. The linked article is about learning for pleasure, but there are also challenges associated with trying to enter the field as a second career. The technical complexity, of course, and the scale of what needs to b…

learned to code at 30 here after a previous life in finance. doing well 4 years on. if i can help anyone in this thread just reply!

Do you code professionally? My gf wants to get a job as a programmer and is about 30 too

Re: On finally learning to program at the age of 40

#70

Post by IkmoIkmo »

m0zg wrote: post #48
darkteflon wrote: post #12

I'm in this boat. Finally started programming in 2018 at age 38 after a lifetime of playing around with computers as a hobby (thanks, dad!) and a first career in a completely unrelated field, as an attorney. The linked article is about learning for pleasure, but there are also challenges associated with trying to enter the field as a second career. The technical complexity, of course, and the scale of what needs to b…

If you don't mind me asking, why would one give up a cushy, well paid attorney career and choose software engineering? Software engineering compensation _tops out_ below where an experienced attorney compensation _begins_. The least I've ever paid a lawyer was $250/hr.

I mean, you can say the same about plumbers, to an extent. Many charge $100-200 an hour, more for the first hour, plus travel fee and service charge, and may skim a profit on the parts they use as well.

Either you're an entrepreneur, and your hourly wage has to pay for all kinds of costs, including time not spent working, getting clients, equipment, training blablabla. Or you're an employee and your take-home pay can be completely detached from the pricing to your clients.

When I started my career in a legal/financial firm as a junior my hourly rate was $200 and my hourly pay was about $15, for example.

In those days I also worked a lot of overtime and chargeability requirements will drive you mad. Also in many firms you quickly specialise leading to sometimes boring work. On the one hand every legal matter is different and has its own quirks, challenges and interesting unique aspects. On the other hand, when you specialise in a certain field, you also constantly work on similar cases with similar references and jurisprudence, and you indeed often end up filling in templates for standard letters, contracts, motions etc, because the bulk of the substance will be the same over and over. Point being, the $15 an hour also came with mind-numbing work with unhealthy workhours and poor work/life balance.

That's just one of many stories, of course and all jobs have their issues. Some lawyers have a great job/life. But there's also plenty of people who may enjoy programming much more.

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