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Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

arstechnica.com

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Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#81

Post by wtallis »

causality0 wrote: post #62

Did Western Digital have some kind of management shakeup in the last few years? Back in the day my general impression was that they were a quality brand that engaged in less bullshit than the likes of Seagate and Hitachi. It seems the tables have turned.

They bought SanDisk in 2016, and that part of the business is now probably seen as having more strategic importance (their "President, Technology and Strategy" is a SanDisk guy).

They got a new CEO this year, but the previous CEO had been HGST's CEO until WDC bought HGST and put him in charge. (He was also previously HGST's CFO, and before that, WDC's CFO.)

But I don't think a management change is particularly important here. Their competitors were caught doing the same BS with SMR drives. I think we're just seeing what happens when a lucrative duopoly gets sidelined by replacement technology. The consumer hard drive market has become a market for lemons, and only the datacenter customers get treated seriously anymore.

Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#82

Post by bleepblorp »

gruez wrote: post #53
bleepblorp wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't touch a Barracuda with a WD SMR drive duct taped to a 50' pole. The only way to get good hard drives these days is to buy from the enterprise lines e.g. WD Gold or Seagate Exos. They're extremely expensive, but this is the only way to get the kind of quality that used to be standard a few years ago.

Why not get an external hard drive and shuck it? You end up paying half the price, but the drive is still the same (although you have to pay attention to reviews on /r/DataHoarder). The only disadvantage is the lack of warranty and having to shuck it.

Shucking isn't necessarily possible anymore.

Some WD external drives will hang the boot process if the host computer probes the drive for bootability. These drives will even stop the host computer from booting if they're connected via USB, much less if they're directly connected.

Some USB external drives have the USB controller embedded on the drive PCB and don't provide an accessible SATA interface.

Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#83

Post by bleepblorp »

bfuclusion wrote: post #10
RachelF wrote: post #7

That's what happens when you have little competition. Right now the high capacity, non-SSD hard drive market is a duopoly between WD and Seagate. Customers have little choice.

SSD volumetric capacity already exceeds spinning disk, and we're just waiting for the price to come down. The horse's dealer's competition wasn't more stables, it was the car.

SSD prices have remained stubbornly high for some strange reason or other. Indeed, they've gone up since the pandemic started.

The small number of suppliers for flash memory might have something to do with this.

Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#85

Post by floatingatoll »

ha5u wrote: post #8

The German-language forum that the article mentions has been doing some great detective work: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/crystaldiskinf... The conclusion on page 4 of the above thread: > Non-Pro RED = 5400rpm according to data sheet > Pro Red = 7200rpm according to data sheet > Internal both 7200rpm and 120Hz. > Apparently all WD / HGST helium plates have real 7200rpm, no matter what it says. Simpl…

Does the spec sheet have inaccurate decibel and watts information provided, such that the drive being purchased has inappropriate noise (decibels) and thermal (watts used) properties when compared to the specifications printed for those specific properties? Or has everyone been taking for granted that '5400 rpm' is a shortcut for 'cool and quiet' and is just now realizing that they should have been reading the actual 'cool' and 'quiet' specifications instead of using search keyword '5400' to stand in for that diligence?

I think Western Digital just made a year's worth of profits off of people who don't read spec sheets, and they have a plausible interpretation that would unfortunately will probably survive a court challenge. Western Digital has clearly taken the position that '5400 RPM' has always been a statement of disk I/O performance, never a statement about other characteristics, and so by saying '5400 RPM Class' they only mean the drive's I/O performance, not any of those other secondary characteristics that led to the uproar we're discussing.

Western Digital is in the wrong here — not for repricing 'cool and quiet' drives, but for communication — and should have just openly said:

"We're ending production of quiet-cool 5400 RPM drives in our consumer product lines. If cost is of most concern to your installation, our consumer products will continue to meet your needs. If heat and noise are of most concern to your installation, our professional products with WhisperDrive(tm) will continue to meet your needs."

EDIT: I also think WD should be publishing thermal characteristics, not just "watts used".

Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#86

Post by p1necone »

AnonHP wrote: post #75

I’ve not touched WD drives in a long, long time, and the recent SMR fiasco made the brand seem even more untrustworthy than what was in my imagination. In this case, it sounds (from the official response) as if WD is trying to “dumb down” the specs so that generally less informed buyers can compare them easily and make the right choices?! But this effort will fail because it hides information in scenarios where it ce…

"In this case, it sounds (from the official response) as if WD is trying to “dumb down” the specs so that generally less informed buyers can compare them easily and make the right choices"

Which is total bullshit, because what "less informed buyers" even read spec sheets? The spec sheet is for people that want detailed technical information. Info for the average consumer should be on the retail box and store descriptions.

Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#87

Post by Fej »

bleepblorp wrote: post #79
Fej wrote: post #74

Adjacent to WD's recent scumminess, I recently purchased an Ultrastar drive (no longer HGST-branded) and it came with a slip in the box informing me that by purchasing this product (from B&H) I had somehow agreed to binding arbitration. Companies have been abusing the ability to force consumers into binding arbitration but this is another level. I'm not a lawyer but it doesn't seem to be clear if this would hold up i…

The USSC has ruled that binding arbitration clauses in shrink-wrap consumer contracts are legal and enforceable. For the usual reasons, congress has refused to change the law to vacate the ruling.

It's not quite so clear, the Wikipedia article on the subject has a bird's eye view of the relevant case law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrink_wrap_contract

For this drive, there is no explicit acceptance of the terms given and the terms are unavailable before not just purchase, but before opening of the box.

Thank you for the comment, I've edited mine to reflect the ambiguity.

Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#88

Post by segfaultbuserr »

jasonhansel wrote: post #67

This reminds me of how, to make a whole lineup of Intel chips, they just make the highest-price model, and then disable features to create the lower-price ones. Or how shorter-range Teslas have the same battery capacity as longer-range ones--they just disable using the extra capacity in software. In this case, the "5400 RPM" drive runs at 7200 RPM, but WD presumably makes it (either via software or hardware) perform…

It's also true in many IBM mainframe computers for decades. Usually a lot of hardware is installed but disabled by software, an upgrade by a field technician is just the process of entering a license key. Same for many electronic test instruments, sometimes it's possible to "upgrade" the cheapest 100 MHz oscilloscope in a product line to the most expensive 500 MHz model [0] by an undocumented backdoor, EEPROM hacking, or a keygen. Extra features can also be unlocked. Interestingly, since the manufacturers' revenues come from selling to enterprise users under service contracts, they usually don't care about a hardware hackers or two on the web at all.

[0] Of course it's a possibility that the analog front-end and ADC is still binned for performance or populated with different components, so you need a bit luck here if you want matched performance.

Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#89

Post by sellyme »

smnrchrds wrote: post #13
ha5u wrote: post #8

The German-language forum that the article mentions has been doing some great detective work: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/crystaldiskinf... The conclusion on page 4 of the above thread: > Non-Pro RED = 5400rpm according to data sheet > Pro Red = 7200rpm according to data sheet > Internal both 7200rpm and 120Hz. > Apparently all WD / HGST helium plates have real 7200rpm, no matter what it says. Simpl…

> What a world when you can't even trust the spec sheet. What's next, 10 watt class drives that pull 20 watts? 3-year class warranties? Just like how internet speeds are advertised ("Up to 300 Mb/s").

That's illegal where I live, the primary connection speed figure used in advertisements must be the average speed users in the real world experience.

Turns out that consumer protection laws are pretty useful.

Re: Western Digital is trying to redefine the word “RPM”

#90

Post by p1necone »

remote_phone wrote: post #77

Don’t drive with higher RPMs have higher transfer rates? I find it hard to believe that people are complaining about better performance.

Higher transfer rates, but also higher noise and power consumption (and presumably higher failure rates, but I'm less certain about that) - if you don't need the higher speed, 5400rpm drives are actually better.
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