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Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

neilkakkar.com

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Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#31

Post by greggman3 »

lordnacho wrote: post #20

To start with, "Senior" and related titles basically mean a person who doesn't need much hand-holding. This might be related to time spent, but often you find there's a lot of variation. People I consider senior software engineers have a can-do-anything vibe about them. They have a wide range of skills in the field, and have that T-shaped experience profile: there's some area they seem to know everything about, and t…

My experience is people in "senior" roles are more often than not people who pushed to be put in those roles regardless of how much experience they may or may not have. I know people placed in "senior" roles at 19-21yrs old. I'm not saying age is a qualifier but in this case it was clear they didn't have any special skills. But once they were given the role it carried them through their career. With the title on their resume they continually got hired and higher and higher levels.

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#32

Post by geofft »

starfleet_bop wrote: post #23

It seems millennial achievement medals have now become job titles. Two years to become a senior engineer out of college is a joke. You only just know how to work in a general sense in that time frame, domain expertise comes much later. After a University degree, you only really know what page in your textbook to turn to when you recognise a problem. I come from a mechanical engineering background and it probably take…

I don't see what this has to do with millennials. Leaving aside that "achievement medals" were generally made for the sake of the parents and not the child, it certainly wasn't millennials who came up with, say, the idea that banks should have thousands of vice presidents.

In any case, it is absolutely possible to have significant domain expertise in software engineering two years out of school. When you're seeing results of the things you build within minutes, you can pick up experience quickly. I agree that you still have a lot to learn, and I did, but I was meaningfully capable of providing technical leadership two years out of school.

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#33

Post by mettamage »

starfleet_bop wrote: post #23

It seems millennial achievement medals have now become job titles. Two years to become a senior engineer out of college is a joke. You only just know how to work in a general sense in that time frame, domain expertise comes much later. After a University degree, you only really know what page in your textbook to turn to when you recognise a problem. I come from a mechanical engineering background and it probably take…

> Two years to become a senior engineer out of college is a joke.

Sure

> After a University degree, you only really know what page in your textbook to turn to when you recognise a problem.

No.

My first job during college was to create an iOS app for a researcher (an extensive multimedia questionnaire). What I did: take Hegarthy's course, and understand it. After that, I simply could create the app by thinking logically. I didn't refer back to the course while I created the app.

My first job out of college was upgrading some Java CRUD app. I had the fortune of teaching at a coding bootcamp (as I self-taught NodeJS and then taught it). That NodeJS experience, including with having familiarity with the Java syntax was enough to edit files for a Spring Boot application. Simply by reading the code, I understood what happened and how they wanted me to design things.

No textbook required.

> don’t harm someone with your shitty design.

It's possible that might've happened.

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#34

Post by spectramax »

starfleet_bop wrote: post #23

It seems millennial achievement medals have now become job titles. Two years to become a senior engineer out of college is a joke. You only just know how to work in a general sense in that time frame, domain expertise comes much later. After a University degree, you only really know what page in your textbook to turn to when you recognise a problem. I come from a mechanical engineering background and it probably take…

The definition of “senior” is vague and subjective. When you try to say objective things such as “6-8 years to become senior”, that’s meaningless because “senior” is undefined.

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#35

Post by aronpye »

geofft wrote: post #32
starfleet_bop wrote: post #23

It seems millennial achievement medals have now become job titles. Two years to become a senior engineer out of college is a joke. You only just know how to work in a general sense in that time frame, domain expertise comes much later. After a University degree, you only really know what page in your textbook to turn to when you recognise a problem. I come from a mechanical engineering background and it probably take…

I don't see what this has to do with millennials. Leaving aside that "achievement medals" were generally made for the sake of the parents and not the child, it certainly wasn't millennials who came up with, say, the idea that banks should have thousands of vice presidents. In any case, it is absolutely possible to have significant domain expertise in software engineering two years out of school. When you're seeing re…

No, but millennials sure do demand such titles.

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#36

Post by [deleted] »

greggman3 wrote: post #31
lordnacho wrote: post #20

To start with, "Senior" and related titles basically mean a person who doesn't need much hand-holding. This might be related to time spent, but often you find there's a lot of variation. People I consider senior software engineers have a can-do-anything vibe about them. They have a wide range of skills in the field, and have that T-shaped experience profile: there's some area they seem to know everything about, and t…

My experience is people in "senior" roles are more often than not people who pushed to be put in those roles regardless of how much experience they may or may not have. I know people placed in "senior" roles at 19-21yrs old. I'm not saying age is a qualifier but in this case it was clear they didn't have any special skills. But once they were given the role it carried them through their career. With the title on thei…

[deleted]

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#37

Post by geofft »

aronpye wrote: post #35
geofft wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see what this has to do with millennials. Leaving aside that "achievement medals" were generally made for the sake of the parents and not the child, it certainly wasn't millennials who came up with, say, the idea that banks should have thousands of vice presidents. In any case, it is absolutely possible to have significant domain expertise in software engineering two years out of school. When you're seeing re…

No, but millennials sure do demand such titles.

Only in the sense that we demand to be judged by our knowledge and ability and not by our age. If you're going to make a title and say "nobody's eligible for this until they're 40," we'll certainly try to prove you wrong. If you don't make the title, millennials as a group aren't going to care.

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#38

Post by aronpye »

mettamage wrote: post #33
starfleet_bop wrote: post #23

It seems millennial achievement medals have now become job titles. Two years to become a senior engineer out of college is a joke. You only just know how to work in a general sense in that time frame, domain expertise comes much later. After a University degree, you only really know what page in your textbook to turn to when you recognise a problem. I come from a mechanical engineering background and it probably take…

> Two years to become a senior engineer out of college is a joke. Sure > After a University degree, you only really know what page in your textbook to turn to when you recognise a problem. No. My first job during college was to create an iOS app for a researcher (an extensive multimedia questionnaire). What I did: take Hegarthy's course, and understand it. After that, I simply could create the app by thinking logical…

You may have had the ability to create a fairly simple app or add to an existing one with low stakes / impact. But, it takes time to be able to quickly reason from a fundamental, first principles levels in order to engineer robust solutions to problems.

On a side note, I don’t agree with bootcamps as they don’t teach the core principles of computer engineering and software design. Coding is just a skill, and you need some fundamental knowledge behind it in order to execute it safely and robustly.

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#39

Post by jek0 »

A manager gave him the "senior" title. Where I am, "senior" means "experienced". When you need a senior developer in a team, means you need someone that went through many projects and know the errors and mistakes a team can make.

Building mental models is great, but you need to have used a few times in different context, to really appreciate when and how they were the most appropriate.

The experience of handling multi-years projects (and getting back to them after a few years too) has no equivalent.

You can read as much as you like, nothing beats experience, which you will get after years and years in the job.

Re: Things I Learned to Become a Senior Software Engineer

#40

Post by JeanMarcS »

starfleet_bop wrote: post #23

It seems millennial achievement medals have now become job titles. Two years to become a senior engineer out of college is a joke. You only just know how to work in a general sense in that time frame, domain expertise comes much later. After a University degree, you only really know what page in your textbook to turn to when you recognise a problem. I come from a mechanical engineering background and it probably take…

Came to also share my surprise of reading stuff starting with the back in the days when I was just a junior 20 months ago. Even if accurate, TBH I stopped reading after that
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