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Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

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Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#161

Post by joelbluminator »

skissane wrote: post #135
joelbluminator wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

being white is not only about skin colour. many jews look white but they certainly don't feel white.

I suspect that outside the US, most Jews rarely if ever think about whether they are "white", much less about whether they feel "white" US culture is very focused on racial categories – who is and isn't "white". Most other Western cultures are not – European cultures, Australia, etc I think in Israel, people think about who is Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi, Beta Israel, Arab/Palestinian, Druze, Secular vs Religious Zi…

They probably use some word that differentiates them from everyone else - be it White, Christians, Dutch, Goyim or whatever. In Israel Ashkenazi heavily correlated with appearing "White" btw, and the word White is used when you want to say privileged. So I wouldn't say skin colour isn't a thing there.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#162

Post by watt »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #33
akira2501 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, whoever wrote that never heard of a "language barrier." IT is not some universal language.

Language is not that much of a problem. They all speak Russian. Lithuania has a sizable minority of Russian speakers, and has historical ties to Belarus. Latvia is predominantly Russian-speaking. Ukraine as well. Knowing Belarusian, they can pick up Polish rather quickly. As a last resort, Russia is still freer than Belarus politically and better off economically. Smolensk is half an hour drive from the Belarusian bo…

"Predominantly"? Why did you choose to use such an ugly word. As a consequence of occupation by Soviet Union, and prolonged Russification policies, there is a sizeable population share in Latvia who understand and speak Russian language. It's a minority share, though only just (about 40%).

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#163

Post by blub »

bonoboTP wrote: post #141
xyzzyz wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly enough, tech salaries are not that much higher in Germany than they are in Poland. In Germany, the tech wages are surprisingly low, and when you couple that with higher taxes and high cost of living, it is not as attractive as US or Switzerland. In more concrete terms: 60-70k EUR is what you are looking at in Germany in good job markets, while in Poland the figure is 30-40k EUR. When you consider taxes,…

Life is pretty cheap in Germany if you live a simple life. Supermarkets are famously cheap. Clothes, electronics cost the same as anywhere else. Rent is bearable outside of big cities and jobs are quite well distributed across Germany. The big difference is in the savings. Even if you just make twice as much, your savings per month can be several times higher than in Poland, which makes a lot of difference if you wan…

One has to also mention that living a simple life likely involves living in a smaller town somewhere with all the negative aspects that it involves. i.e. lack of social life, no other like-minded expats, etc.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#164

Post by blub »

ornornor wrote: post #160
bonoboTP wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is just one country further; flights are fast and dirt cheap. If you go abroad, might as well go to a place where salaries are higher.

Then go to Switzerland. If you find a job and have EEU citizenship (not sure about residence permit), getting a permit to stay is just a form and less than 100.-. you can’t find a better place in the EEU for salaries imho. In a small town, your expenses are rather low and these jobs pay 80–120k CHF with taxes around 15–30% depending on the kanton.

Switzerland's famously cold towards foreigners. I'm not judging that either way, just mentioning it because I think it's a relevant detail.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#165

Post by ornornor »

blub wrote: post #164
ornornor wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then go to Switzerland. If you find a job and have EEU citizenship (not sure about residence permit), getting a permit to stay is just a form and less than 100.-. you can’t find a better place in the EEU for salaries imho. In a small town, your expenses are rather low and these jobs pay 80–120k CHF with taxes around 15–30% depending on the kanton.

Switzerland's famously cold towards foreigners. I'm not judging that either way, just mentioning it because I think it's a relevant detail.

I wouldn’t say so. And I have experienced being a foreigner there.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#166

Post by bonoboTP »

blub wrote: post #163
bonoboTP wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life is pretty cheap in Germany if you live a simple life. Supermarkets are famously cheap. Clothes, electronics cost the same as anywhere else. Rent is bearable outside of big cities and jobs are quite well distributed across Germany. The big difference is in the savings. Even if you just make twice as much, your savings per month can be several times higher than in Poland, which makes a lot of difference if you wan…

One has to also mention that living a simple life likely involves living in a smaller town somewhere with all the negative aspects that it involves. i.e. lack of social life, no other like-minded expats, etc.

Lots of "small towns" have social life especially university towns.

Also, yes, a simple life means not to live like an American expat lol. You can have a social life without spending lots of money if you socialize with "like minded" people who also don't want to waste money. You can have friends over for dinner at home with a few beers from the supermarket, play cards or boardgames or video games, soccer or basketball outside, have a BBQ, watch a movie at home, etc.

But it's not like you'd have an American expat-like luxury life in the alternative scenario of staying in Eastern Europe either. The point is, by keeping down your lifestyle you can multiply your savings and escape the cycle of poverty and be able to afford a home in a few years, if you go back to your home country and can support your relatives back home in the meantime. This is a great deal for a lot of people even without the fancy expat-like money-burning lifestyle.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#167

Post by dukeme09 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #138
bonoboTP wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is just one country further; flights are fast and dirt cheap. If you go abroad, might as well go to a place where salaries are higher.

Surprisingly enough, tech salaries are not that much higher in Germany than they are in Poland. In Germany, the tech wages are surprisingly low, and when you couple that with higher taxes and high cost of living, it is not as attractive as US or Switzerland. In more concrete terms: 60-70k EUR is what you are looking at in Germany in good job markets, while in Poland the figure is 30-40k EUR. When you consider taxes,…

It's possible to earn far more than 60-70k a year in Germany as a SWE. In my city, Munich, total cash compensation packages range from 85-110k Euros per year for 5-10 years of experience. The base salary trends to on the lower end, but there can be significant bonuses (company bonus, August vacation bonus, and Christmas bonus. For example st BMW, each of these are typically a month's extra salary). In addition, if your position is unionized, it's possible for you to accrue substantial overtime to further increase annual compensation.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#168

Post by anoncake »

bonoboTP wrote: post #120
skissane wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. Many people from outside the EU, even though they're not considered "white" by Westerners, look white from the outside (think of e.g. Arabs) and the differences are purely cultural. Within a few generations you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and "white" people. The US government officially considers Arab people to be "white". [1] Some Arab Americans disagree with this and believe they are n…

Generally speaking, this question in this form just doesn't come up much in Europe as, "who is white" is much less of a discussion point than in the US, along with all "race" discussions. This is not to say that racism or xenophobia don't exist in Europe, but animosity exists inbetween "whites" as well, and people can hate Arabs without thinking about it in terms of "whites" vs Arabs, and rather thinking about it as…

In fact, the idea that races even exist is considered outdated and racist. France recently removed the word from their constitution because of that. The same is being debated in Germany.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#169

Post by sam_lowry_ »

Twixes wrote: post #129
ArkVark wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland is not a great place to live either. Sales tax is 23%, stores are all shut on Sunday (by decree of the Polish Catholic church, essentially), real estate prices are similar to the midwest USA due to restrictions on new builds, and taxes on labor and small business are high and complicated. The language itself uses a bastardized version of the Latin alphabet which is inferior to Cyrillic, and general pronunciati…

Poland definitely could be a lot better, but these are some odd points. VAT is higher than in Germany, but lower than in Sweden. Nothing that gets anyone going really. Real estate is quite cheap (dollar to dollar, not exactly for Poles) for a European country, though Warsaw does stand out as the capital. There isn't anything "bastardized" or "inferior" about either the Polish or Belarusian alphabet, or really any alp…

Also, GDP growth rate in Poland was double or triple of GDP growth in Belarus over the last 10 years.

IT has grown even more.

Re: Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian turn

#170

Post by justanotheranon »

krapp wrote: post #92
SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well at least he doesn't not call the working clas "deplorables". Michael Moore has a very good comment on why Trump won in 2016, and why he still has a chance in 2020. Overall, Trump's performance up till COVID was okay, but he mishandled the pandemics terribly. Biden will win only because of this. Other than that Biden is boring bland candidate.

Hillary Clinton didn't call the working class deplorables. Here are her words, verbatim: “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.” As you can read, the "basket of deplorables" refe…

here is a better example than her deplorables gaffe. when Hillary's own campaign manager says in private that Hillary hates everyday Americans, that goes way beyond working class--we're talking 50% of the citizens. voters aren't stupid. they can sense when a politician is full of BS and hates them. that's why they didn't vote for her.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/4433

"On Apr 19, 2015, at 4:20 PM, John Podesta wrote:

I know she has begun to hate everyday Americans, but I think we should use it once the first time she says I'm running for president because you and everyday Americans need a champion.

I think if she doesn't say it once, people will notice and say we false started in Iowa."

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