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My thoughts about editors in 2020

phaazon.net

21–30 of 71 posts

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s always seemed silly to me not to use tools that make your job easier. JetBrains products are the most powerful software I have to get my work done.

Those things are often huge, slow, and take a long time to learn—not all sunshine and roses. When the control panel has search you know you're in one. All a tradeoff of course.

They are huge and slow and take a while to learn.

But is the alternative really all that better? I love vim, but without a bunch of plugins it's fairly rough to use. VSCode seems the same. So to me it looks like you're trading one complexity (learning about your tool) for another (having to search left and right for the right plugins, see how they work, etc).

Software dev is not my day job, although I do it often enough to have a PyCharm license. I've purchased that because working with Django just works. It knows how to refactor, it understands the meanings of strings in configurations, it can run a local editor with local analysis / completion / etc but do the actual code running / debugging on a remote machine. All this out of the box and very easily set up. Can VSCode do this? I don't know, maybe. But I know that it doesn't have python support out of the box. So instead of having to search through the settings of PyCharm (which, to me, have fairly sane defaults) I have to search through the plugins of VSCode.

I'm also trying Rust a bit. There's a JetBrains plugin for it, it just works. It was fairly bare bones, now it's getting smarter and smarter with respect to refactoring, etc. Last I looked in VS Code, there were multiple rust plugins. Which should I pick? I get that choice is good, don't get me wrong. My point is that using a "simple" editor isn't all that simple either. It's always a trade off of sorts.

Now, if your point is that all you need is vim with a nice color scheme, I understand that, too. And in that case, you've got a point. But I guess that, as GP said, if there are tools available that are there to help you, some people like using them.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#22
I've sunk a pretty substantial amount of time into learning vim (neovim) and imo it's paid big dividends in taking the monotony out of text editing tasks. But, I don't limit myself to one tool. If I need a graphical debugger or the language doesn't have a fast lightweight language server, I use an IDE.

I switch between neovim and an IDE pretty frequently. I use yakuake to open up a terminal when I need it. best of both worlds! Plugins like comrade[1] make this pairing delightful. If your definition of a VIM mode only includes text objects and navigation, than an IDE with VIM bindings is plenty to replace it, but it doesn't cut it for me. My workflow has become reliant on VIM macros, global commands, buffers, and filters. I also haven't found a compelling reason to replace Fugitive[2] for another Git GUI.

None of the stuff I do in neovim is necessary, but it's fast, flexible, a bit obtuse, and pretty dang fun.

It's tough to fill the editing niche VIM fits because of the peculiarities that make it VIM. Doesn't mean that it's the de facto editor for every situation.

[1] https://github.com/beeender/Comrade

[2] https://github.com/tpope/vim-fugitive

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#23
post #8
post #3

No Sublime Text in review; huge omission

What about `cat > file.txt .... [Ctrl]-D' and `sed'? (Joking, but for very small files, I'm doing this more and more.)

Oh, nothing like 'cat | base64' , copy, paste in another terminal to cat

extremely useful in locked down environments

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#24

My thoughts after coding for 15 years now... I still can’t be bothered to learn emacs or vim. I’ve tried and it just never sticks. I remember fewer commands in vim than I knew 10 years ago. I really like smart IDE’s like IntelliJ and pycharm. I’m doing a typescript project in VSCode and the refactoring and code understanding is just... not enough. I agree with James Gosling’s opinion of heavy IDE’s. They help me. I’m…

> I still can’t be bothered to learn emacs or vim. I’ve tried and it just never sticks. I remember fewer commands in vim than I knew 10 years ago.

It's kind of the opposite for me. One day I read an interesting comment about vim and took the vimtutor out of curiosity and it immediately clicked. I always hated learning keyboard shortcuts in other applications and I always forgot them shortly after, but with vim it feels like having learned a tiny foreign language. There's a small grammar and a small vocabulary, which means you don't have to remember each keyboard shortcut, just like you I don't have to remember every sentence of the English language. And the best thing is, every single tiny addition to your vocabulary allows to form a plethora of new sentences, so it always felt amazing learning a new motion or text object in vim.

> Also, I feel like I do more reading code and debugging than writing nowadays, and I am not bothered by my speed at writing code.

I am neither. But I feel editing text with vim needs less thinking on my part, i.e. I can translate my intend easily to vims language without getting interrupted too much.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#25
I just wanted to note for the author, if they’re here, that VSCode has a newish plugin called neovim I think that actually uses neovim itself to handle movement and editing, so it should work no matter how odd the config.

I currently use VSCode and Doom Emacs, after being a fairly long time vim user, fwiw.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#26
I’m a big fan of the JetBrains ecosystem which I think has won the IDE wars (given its ubiquity). Once you get comfortable working in one of their tools and configure it to your needs it’s easy to carry that over to the next tool.

What I was never sold on was their DB offering Datagrip which never felt intuitive for my work. There I was a big fan of SequelPro for MySQL but when it comes to other RDBMS the jury is still out (have tried Navicat, TablePlus, and a myriad others)

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#27
During the period of about 10 years that I was using Emacs as my main editor, I invested countless hours in mastering Elisp, configuring this and that, writing custom functions, fixing abandoned minor modes that I still found useful... It was literally all over the place.

At some point, the list of things that were broken/didn't work well for me got quite long, and I became dissatisfied enough to stop what I was doing and start going through various elisp packages, trying to understand what was really happening.

Let me say first, that I really admire and respect the potential of Lisp. When the code is well written, it is elegant, reasonably comprehensible, and malleable. However, when the code gets sloppy or unnecessary levels of abstraction are added to 'just make things work', it quickly becomes inscrutable. I kept running into package after package of this kind of poorly written, inscrutable Elisp. One package was using EIEIO (object-oriented Elisp) and there were excess levels of indirection all over the place, across thousands of lines of code.

Org-tables are pretty neat, but ultimately a fancy gimmick. I had a 7 column table, and after 200 rows, the reformatting became ridiculously slow. After looking through the tens of thousands of lines of org-mode Elisp code, my main question was, "Is all this code really necessary?" I know that org-mode does a lot, but Elisp is a dynamically typed scripting-level language. With macros. What went wrong?

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#28
post #7
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 10 years in and I'm the same. My editor is never, ever my bottleneck. Especially not to the degree that I'm going to sink dozens of hours into learning one. It has never gotten in my way and I just don't care. I have given Vim a couple of hours, realised I was learning solutions to problems I never had, and I moved on. Life's too short for that noise.

The important lesson with vim is that you should be able to edit faster than you can think. It doesn't matter whether you use vim keybindings or emacs keybindings, or whatever, just that you have replacements for the functionality so that your brain can be free to think about the problem at hand rather than the nifty-gritty of editing text.

> edit faster than you can think

^^^ The explanation for absolutely every failure of our industry right there in six words.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#29
Things look quite different in biostatistics research and adjacent fields. I personally use vscode, nano, and rstudio. But I am still mostly wetlab. People in my research group use some combination of these, maybe atom, and I am sure some of them like vim or emacs, but I haven't asked. The python guy uses vscode instead of intelliJ. I haven't seen anyone use vscode over RStudio, for R. But some of us will occasionally preference R intepreter in the terminal.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#30

My thoughts after coding for 15 years now... I still can’t be bothered to learn emacs or vim. I’ve tried and it just never sticks. I remember fewer commands in vim than I knew 10 years ago. I really like smart IDE’s like IntelliJ and pycharm. I’m doing a typescript project in VSCode and the refactoring and code understanding is just... not enough. I agree with James Gosling’s opinion of heavy IDE’s. They help me. I’m…

I use vim bindings whenever I can, though I never use vim. I don't know most of the commands beyond navigation and basic editing, but using h, j, k, l and deleting, yanking, pasting entire lines with dd, yy, C, p, etc. are far less tedious the using the mouse and arrow keys.
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