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My thoughts about editors in 2020

phaazon.net

11–20 of 71 posts

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#11
post #9

I've been using emacs or vi for a long time. emacs is my primary editor. I used to use vi/vim more, because it is available just about everywhere and it's great for quickly editing a config file on a remote system. But once I started using tramp, I now use emacs for all systems. Tramp is a built-in way of editing files on remote systems using ssh as the transport. I can edit remote config files on dumb iot devices th…

I really want to edit remote files but I’ve given up lately as I switch between 3 editors depending on the task and it’s quite complex.

Sshfs never worked well enough. Now I just push to git...

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#12

My thoughts after coding for 15 years now... I still can’t be bothered to learn emacs or vim. I’ve tried and it just never sticks. I remember fewer commands in vim than I knew 10 years ago. I really like smart IDE’s like IntelliJ and pycharm. I’m doing a typescript project in VSCode and the refactoring and code understanding is just... not enough. I agree with James Gosling’s opinion of heavy IDE’s. They help me. I’m…

I used to teach a vi course, and you're not missing anything imho. I use JetBrains now.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#13
I stopped reading when they wrote that they preferred modal editors because they hate navigating with arrow keys. Uh, I use to live in Emacs and now I use VS Code, and you could remove my arrow keys for all I’d care (or notice). Those are entirely orthogonal, like “I prefer cars to bikes because I like tires.”

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#14
I spent some time learning emacs, and I use it every time I'm in the terminal and need quick access to a file, or SSH into a machine, but there's no way I'll ever spend the time to make it my main editor. The learning curve is not steep, it's fixed to a "hard" mode: every new plugin you want to try, you'll have to figure out how to use and there'll be some time adaptation to learn new shortcuts.

While I don't see them dying, since editors in a terminal is still a thing, but I'm wondering if we're going to see alternatives popping up at some point, or perhaps VSCode will have a "ssh into this machine and open the file in the editor" flow at some point.

Realistically editors like VSCode and Sublime text are the future: easily extendable AND it's fast to try new plugins. If you don't remember a shortcut just cmd + P, fuzzy type what you want to do, remember the shortcut displayed next to the name for next time.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#15
I'll crosspost what I wrotw about Doom Emacs on Reddit:

-----------------

> The killer feature of Atom to me is its ability to tell you what commands are associated (or erased) for a keybinding you are pressing, live. It is very practical to debug keybinding issues and I wish more editors had it. Other editors feature similar stuff, but not quite as good as this echo mode for keybinding.

Btw, for Doom Emacs this is accessible through the help interface.

`SPC h k ` will open up the manual page for that function, with a description, list of keybindings, argument list, and at the bottom, full code listing where you can jump to references including callers/callees and examine the code in-situ if you need.

`SPC h b b` will allow you interactive search through Doom Emacs bindings and bring up the same as above, and `SPC h b` exposes other neat things like keymaps for the current major-mode, etc.

---

Honestly, I have been using Vim constantly in various forms -- GVim, Vim, Vi, ex-vi, Neovim, etc. (Even ex and ed(1) for a little period) for about 8 years. I discovered Doom Emacs this July, and gave it a few hours. Then I kept on giving it a few hours. A week later I hadn't boot up vim for a week. With Vim, there was always a barrier around writing extensions -- it never really felt like it was meant to be integrated with them. The single best Vi experience I've had wasn't with Neovim, it was with ex-vi. There were some sharp edges but the interface felt orders of magnitude more clean than I was used to.

I had tried Emacs before but Spacemacs was poorly integrated -- I tried using package-install and I was dumped into a buffer with no evil-mode bindings. And learning Emacs was a hilarious nightmare. Just look at these amazingly terrible commands to know how horrible that was[0], the last straw was when I tried to undo using `C-x u` (I think?) and it undid one character at a time!

Two things sold me on Doom Emacs - the support, and the feeling I get when using it.

* The support is amazing, I can't even begin to comprehend how much the maintainer, Henrik, works at it. He has a well-developed system on the discord where you can hit up one of the assigned channels (how-do-i or troubleshooting are the main ones as a newbie), tag \@helpme, and you will get seen quickly. He stays up until 2 am some nights answering support requests, and has put a lot of work into `doom doctor` so there are some rudimentary diagnosics included. It is by far the most pleasant and memorable support experience I've ever had with any piece of software in the 10 years I've been programming, and I have a huge amount of respect for him.

- The feeling I get when using it is harder to quantify. I'll attempt to quantify the 4 or so years I spent digging into hacker history in the following comparison: - Vim - Editing becomes muscle memory, so you don't need to think. You can sit down at a computer and be sure it has some variant of Vim that you can use almost like normal. - Emacs - The editor grows around you, as you customize it to your taste. You're taking an editor built on a language, and altering the code, patching in improvements. Each Emacs instance is totally unique, and can rarely be used by another Emacsen (I actually vaguely recall reading/hearing of a joke where it was implied the Emacs instance and the beard grew into each other).

Doom Emacs, for me at least, is the perfect blend of the muscle memory interface power of Vim, and the "block of clay" feeling I get from Emacs.

[0]: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Ch...

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#16
post #14

I spent some time learning emacs, and I use it every time I'm in the terminal and need quick access to a file, or SSH into a machine, but there's no way I'll ever spend the time to make it my main editor. The learning curve is not steep, it's fixed to a "hard" mode: every new plugin you want to try, you'll have to figure out how to use and there'll be some time adaptation to learn new shortcuts. While I don't see the…

Good news, you can do remote development in VSCode: https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#17
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s always seemed silly to me not to use tools that make your job easier. JetBrains products are the most powerful software I have to get my work done.

Those things are often huge, slow, and take a long time to learn—not all sunshine and roses. When the control panel has search you know you're in one. All a tradeoff of course.

Huge but not really slow. They automate a lot of common tasks, super fast searches/navigation, refactoring etc. Code analysis is just there. Often my fellow non-IDE users struggle to find the piece of code when we're chatting whereas for me navigating or finding things anywhere in a really large code base is pretty much instant. I stopped pointing it out unless it's a good friend I just want to rib a little.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#18
post #14

I spent some time learning emacs, and I use it every time I'm in the terminal and need quick access to a file, or SSH into a machine, but there's no way I'll ever spend the time to make it my main editor. The learning curve is not steep, it's fixed to a "hard" mode: every new plugin you want to try, you'll have to figure out how to use and there'll be some time adaptation to learn new shortcuts. While I don't see the…

> perhaps VSCode will have a "ssh into this machine and open the file in the editor" flow

Indeed that future is here. Just today I walked someone through the steps to prepare a remote editing setup with SSH.

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh-tutorial

Still requires a bit of technical knowledge, but once it's set up, it's seamless.

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#19
I have a tendency to switch between VSCode and Neovim on a semiannual basis--mostly to come back to the speed and native vi in Neovim, only to switch back after going through plugin hell for weeks.

Neovim could be a great editor if they spent more time adding core plugins to the main program. I see it's starting to happen a little with the built in LSP and package manager, but it should do more. The docs are a mess for configuring some of these bleeding edge features (like the floating windows), and it definitely impacts my workflow without them.

On the flip side, VSCode has too many "non sensible" defaults for my liking, especially between versions. Nothing grinds my gears more than making a big edit, only to look at the diff and realize some plugin decided to autoformat everything. VSCode also has a tendency to hang, especially with vim mode for some reason

Re: My thoughts about editors in 2020

#20
post #4

It's interesting that none of all this is really the reason why I use what I use ... I use vim simply because it is ubiquitously installed on every linux and Mac system no matter what or where, including keybindings in every other editor or IDE I would ever encounter, including the bash command line (after set -o vi) and FireFox (with SurfingKeys). The fact that it happens to be powerful enough to do everything I wan…

> I use vim simply because it is ubiquitously installed on every linux and Mac system no matter what or where

This was also my initial reason for learning Vim so that I could comfortably write code on any machine I encountered, but the editing experience was actually really fast and enjoyable so I stuck with it ever since.

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