'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland • Hacker News Board

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#301

Post by gridlockd » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #293

gridlockd wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what can I say? Branding matters. Associations matter. If you don't agree that the US should be a white anglosaxon ethnostate, can't you at least agree with the Nazis that there should be immigration reform?

Except the only people branding BLM as Marxist extremists are their opponents, whereas the Nazis were actually Nazis.

I disagree with that.

There are Marxist extremists associated with BLM, and while "disbanding the police" may not be textbook Marxism, it is a "loony leftist idea" and therefore interchangeable with Marxism in the public discourse.

Similarly, very few of the people arguing for making the US a white ethnostate are literally "National Socialists". Yet, we call them Nazis.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#302

Post by burfog » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

mStreamTeam wrote: post #155

coldpie wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BLM as an organization has existed since 2013-2014. Before 2020, has there been any violence from anti-police-brutality protesting? The protests have been incredibly peaceful for years and years. What you're seeing now is a response to the lack of action boiling over. When voting and peacefully protesting doesn't stop the government executing American citizens in the streets, what do you do next? What's left? When yo…

No violence except for the Dallas shootings in 2016: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_poli... Funny thing, BLM basically disappeared after this and just reappeared in 2020

It pops up during presidential election years. The donations are what is funding the DNC and the Biden campaign. It's an odd thing when you consider that Harris was a prosecutor who was unusually aggressive about putting black people in prison for minor offenses like pot, and that Biden was a senator who pushed to pass the strict sentencing.

I think the deal is that getting a person to donate to an uninspiring political campaign is difficult, but it is easy to add a more-palatable organization in the middle to pass along the funding. It's almost money laundering.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#303

Post by skmurphy » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

Journalism is a key element of our collective civic sensemaking. Kent Bye worked on a model for collaborative journalism he called "The Echo Chamber Project" see https://archive.org/details/KentByeEchoChamberProjectVlogEpi... His goal was that documentary film makers could post all of the material they collected. This would allow viewers to judge what was excluded and to remix it from other points of view.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#304

Post by pmoriarty » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

someguydave wrote: post #296

pmoriarty wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They only go to jail if they are judged to have committed crimes in court." Not true. Plenty of people in jail have not been found guilty of anything and are there waiting their day in court. That could go on for months or even years. That's not to mention people dying in police custody, and the fact that some people's lives and reputation could be ruined by the mere accusation of a crime.

Fair enough - the system isn’t perfect; however there is no perfect system this side of heaven. I’m open to many kinds of reforms of the criminal justice system. The important thing to realize is that there are only trade-offs, no perfect answers. Still, defendants still have rights and get due process in court. It is not reasonable to jettison all of that because sometimes we don’t like the outcomes.

You do have rights and get due process unless you're:

- a minority who's not part of the elite

- poor and don't have connections

- get accused of not having the right papers

- run in to a corrupt cop or one who's having a bad day and decides to take it out on you

Even if you do get your day in court the system is heavily stacked against many segments of society.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#305

Post by nphd » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

Wow I kinda thought the article would go into police departments and unions paying social media management firms to send bad-faith takedown notices for YouTube videos that cast them in a bad light, but uhh yeah some protesters are kinda trying to do the same thing with far less resources.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#306

Post by humanrebar » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #287

humanrebar wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how is the rogue actor narrative intact vis a vis the riots?

Leaders associated with the Black Lives Matter movement, including organizers of the protest rally, condemned the shooting -- Wikipedia Have we seen anything in particular that strongly suggests the Dallas shooting was not a rogue agent?

I specifically asked about the arson and other violence that has been going on all summer.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#307

Post by baryphonic » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 12:12 AM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #256

baryphonic wrote: post #160

The mainstream reporting was so bad I just started looking on Twitter. I found both pro- and anti-"protest" accounts with video. Even the pro-protest account videos debunk the narrative that these are peaceful African-American protestors. Whenever one lets the mask slip or shows her hands or hair, it's a young white person. These are night time riots, plain and simple. Surveillance footage released by law enforcement…

>these Antifa people (who "don't exist" I've heard people argue about their identity and level of organisation, but "don't exist"? If this narrative is out there at all, it must be extremely fringe.

Rep. Nadler called Antifa "imaginary" on the floor of the House of Representatives.[1] I haven't been able to find the full quote with context, so take that as you will. The Daily Beast (not exactly representative of mainstream journalism, I concede) published an article saying ""Antifa" doesn't exist the way Trump pretends it does."[2] Whether those are extremely fringe is left to the reader.

DuckDuckGo admittedly returned more results from right-leaning sources clutching pearls that Democrats and media outlets would dare say such things than results from left-leaning sources saying it explicitly. Such is the nature of the polarized times, I suppose. But I have a few left-wing friends who have said similar things.

[1]https://mobile.twitter.com/judiciarygop/status/1276216650442...

[2]https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-antifa-threat-is-total-...

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#308

Post by czbond » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 12:13 AM UTC

liability wrote: post #123

czbond wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small acts of violence are either a brilliant strategy move of RNC, or a lapse of strategy on the far left. Small bouts of violence are completely de-lever the strategic impact of the intended gatherings from an optics perspective. Someone smart realized that if violence dominoes a bit, along with some press leverage, it creates families afraid of 'defunded police and personal safety issues'. The allowance in Chi…

> The small acts of violence are either a brilliant strategy move of RNC, or a lapse of strategy on the far left. There's another option: it's neither of these because neither political party actually has control over the solution. They're both reacting to the actions of individuals they cannot control. If Nancy Pelosi and Trump both got together for a heartwarming bipartisan plea for both 'sides' in Portland to sett…

Oh of course, the local chapter in each city is where the leadership lack would have happened.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#309

Post by ptero » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 12:42 AM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #24

ptero wrote: post #11

This is the environment in which the journalism originally flourished: obtaining and reporting information that is not readily accessible otherwise, often against the wishes of the powers on the ground; and frequently being in danger while obtaining it. I am not glorifying this setup, it is horrible; but the information it provides is very valuable. Unfortunately, nowadays the journalist working on such project will…

Could unions and professional associations fill that gap? Why aren't they now? Where are groups like the ACLU? It's worth noting that journalism as a profession has a problem with letting itself become political. Seems like for a journalism association to be effective in these cases, it must insist on the impartiality that most institutions seem to be finding too difficult lately.

I think professional associations are pretty toothless; they are primarily for economic benefit, not for fighting or even providing support in an adversity.

Unions might not be a very good fit either. They do have fists and I would expect a good union to put a fight for any member that got laid off, even if the union leadership finds that defending the person is a burden. But the union probably would not care about impartiality of reporting or help publish a particular view.

But this does look like an almost perfect case for the freedom of speech defenders. I do not know why are they not helping. My only guess is that they are used to fighting the government or megacorps and have no idea how to help in this setup. But this is just a random guess.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#310

Post by GaryNumanVevo » Mon, Sep 07, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #59

Just some mostly peaceful Molotov cocktails in Portland last night during the mostly peaceful riot. Nothing to see here. During the mayhem a protester was caught on fire but he was mostly not on fire.

Ignoring the 60-day escalation of protests on Portland is pretty dishonest. Police started using more rubber bullets, harming protestors: they started bringing homemade shields, etc.