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Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

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Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#31

Post by maproot »

lachlan-sneff wrote: post #28
maproot wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it "simple coincidence" that "conspiracy theories" almost always come true? I'm about conspiracy theories which are not made up by to make fun of conspirators to show them like "idiots" on public. Anyway, users always lose. Another coincidence and in this case they will not lose, right? :-) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24383039

> Is it "simple coincidence" that "conspiracy theories" almost always come true? That's quite a statement to make. In no way do "conspiracy theories almost always come true."

The main point that there are legit theories that always carry at least a grain of truth. And when such theory come into the public, government/google/etc begin there job to 1) hide them/remove/censor 2) if it still becomes popular they start to make fun of it with misinformation. 3) if it's not help they start to fork the main theory with a lot of alternative views/lies.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#32

Post by tmd83 »

glenstein wrote: post #22
tmd83 wrote: post #5

I am really curious what's the general opinion on Googler's as a web developer. I have seen a long while ago some nice articles from Google about site optimization. Do they even follow any of their original advice or Google basically keep doing over engineered stuff fixed by adding another set of over engineered staff? Let's talk gmail. I just refreshed the window and it did close to 400 request, ~8MB download which…

>And they are preaching the world about optimizing the web? The transformation has been amazing. Google properties, to the extent that they used to have a unified aesthetic, used to be quite lean and mean. How anyone can look at a product like Gmail and say that this is coming from a standard bearer on efficient use of resources is beyond me.

Oh I recall that so well. I started using google during my 4KB/s internet. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#33

Post by sp332 »

detaro wrote: post #19
otterley wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsers like Safari are increasingly enabling privacy features that, among other techniques, block third party cookies by default. So this could be Google’s way of reacting to this change.

How do bundles "help" with third-party cookies?

Normally, if you load a page from Party A which pulls in content from Party B, it's hard for them to correlate who you are because they have separate cookies. That's not a problem if they're served from the same host, probably even on the same QUIC connection.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#34

Post by nuker »

CapeSecession wrote: post #23
TekMol wrote: post #8

I think their idea is to combine that with signing the bundles, so a page from www.someserver.com can be served by anyone, aka Google. I guess this would mean Google can serve all content on the web. There seems to be a strong urge in Google to cut the connection between then endpoints of the web and become the central authority. Make all traffic flow through their machines. Let no information arrive at the endpoints…

Disappointing that the author concludes : "As a user, there is little that can be done in this regard other than to watch how this will all unfold in the future." As with all other power grabs, the ability to resist it is simply a function of how organised the resistance is. The apathy shown here directly counteracts any urge to resist.

If iOS Safari does not play ball, we are safe.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#35

Post by return1 »

tormeh wrote: post #11
return1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because heavy pages clog their crawlers. Of course they are not following their advice (neither does FB)

This is great: https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/?url=... I mean, kudos to Google for (probably) not cheating here, but that's a low score.

Yeah but they have the best SEO

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#36

Post by ffpip »

Yet another thing Google wants to fix by serving everything through their servers instead of asking devs to fix their owns sites.

Same problem with AMP. Instead of asking news sites to fix their slow pages, it forced them through AMP by promising better result ranking.

Ask them to make their sites faster within a month or say they'll get booted off search. You'll be surprised at how fast they comply

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#37

Post by jmull »

I think this line of criticism of web bundles misses the mark. It looks to me like the issues raised are perfectly possible and just as easy without web bundles -- that is, these may be legitimate issues, but are independent of web bundles.

My issue with web bundles is that it's yet another pile of complexity with very little incremental value over things that already exist. A poor tradeoff.

There's a substantial on-going cost to each web standard added so each one needs to "pay" for itself with broad or deep usefulness. Web bundles are just another way to skin a cat.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#38

Post by cflat »

Let’s call a spade a spade. The only real world problem that WebBundles (and Signed Exchanges) really solve is to allow AMP to impersonate your website.

Google wants all the click data and the click through navigation data about users (by way of passive logs) so they can sell more ads.

There are no other real world problems that web bundles solve.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#39

Post by amq »

tmd83 wrote: post #5

I am really curious what's the general opinion on Googler's as a web developer. I have seen a long while ago some nice articles from Google about site optimization. Do they even follow any of their original advice or Google basically keep doing over engineered stuff fixed by adding another set of over engineered staff? Let's talk gmail. I just refreshed the window and it did close to 400 request, ~8MB download which…

Similar thing with their Google Cloud Console: 159 requests, 3.5MB and 13 seconds for the initial page load. Opening any page takes at least 3 further seconds, but usually more like 6 seconds - on a 4-core CPU with 16GB RAM.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#40

Post by judge2020 »

cflat wrote: post #38

Let’s call a spade a spade. The only real world problem that WebBundles (and Signed Exchanges) really solve is to allow AMP to impersonate your website. Google wants all the click data and the click through navigation data about users (by way of passive logs) so they can sell more ads. There are no other real world problems that web bundles solve.

Links on the page are the same as before signed, so the only actual problem with them is not being able to change/delete the documents hosted elsewhere immediately.
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