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Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

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Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#11
post #7
post #5

I am really curious what's the general opinion on Googler's as a web developer. I have seen a long while ago some nice articles from Google about site optimization. Do they even follow any of their original advice or Google basically keep doing over engineered stuff fixed by adding another set of over engineered staff? Let's talk gmail. I just refreshed the window and it did close to 400 request, ~8MB download which…

Yes because heavy pages clog their crawlers. Of course they are not following their advice (neither does FB)

This is great: https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/?url=...

I mean, kudos to Google for (probably) not cheating here, but that's a low score.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#12
post #8

I think their idea is to combine that with signing the bundles, so a page from www.someserver.com can be served by anyone, aka Google. I guess this would mean Google can serve all content on the web. There seems to be a strong urge in Google to cut the connection between then endpoints of the web and become the central authority. Make all traffic flow through their machines. Let no information arrive at the endpoints…

The article seems to give some clue. The format would allow serving unblockable ads using random urls, or urls that look legitimate. Google’s goal is to have full control over the user experience so that they can serve more ads.

You could already use random URLs to serve ads and track, not sure how a bundle changes anything

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article seems to give some clue. The format would allow serving unblockable ads using random urls, or urls that look legitimate. Google’s goal is to have full control over the user experience so that they can serve more ads.

You could already use random URLs to serve ads and track, not sure how a bundle changes anything

Browsers like Safari are increasingly enabling privacy features that, among other techniques, block third party cookies by default. So this could be Google’s way of reacting to this change.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#15
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because heavy pages clog their crawlers. Of course they are not following their advice (neither does FB)

This is great: https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/?url=... I mean, kudos to Google for (probably) not cheating here, but that's a low score.

And thats only for the login page.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#16
post #4
post #2

Google = evil!!! They sleep and dream only about how to spy! Teach your users at every place, at each of your site not to use there spyware & "search engine". Instead of this use privacy search engines, browsers and tools. eg. privacytoolslist.com

Three of three comments where you add the URL. It can quickly look like you only comment to self-advertise.

I just only want that people to take care of their privacy and help them start using open source software. It's a good starting point. What I can really recommend. Absolutely free, no ads, no profit to show them alternatives of proprietary software. And I'm not native. It's very hard to participate in discussions. Much more easy to show/link information that I found useful. Sorry.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#18
I for one believe in the specified use cases of Web Bundles, & believe they are worthy.

https://wicg.github.io/webpackage/draft-yasskin-wpack-use-ca...

What we have here is a budding conspiracy theory, not even a theory, just gesticulation. Consensual Delusion, a belief that we are persecuted by secret forces that must be held off, held at bay.

This started months ago with an incoherent rambling ticket by the Brave author that is being cited. He spent months going back & forth with wild accusations & unspecified concerns. After dozens and dozens of exchanges, he finally named one single scenario, that people might "hide" their tracking malware by renaming files as they put them into the bundle.

Color me extremely unimpressed & unscared. Enormous sound & fury, for a capability that is in no way different from the web we already have today. It's not hard to setup a.webserver to randomize asset names. Nothing about webbundles is new or changes that.

Consensual Delusions like this hacked up hoax of a story threaten reality as we know it. As the old civic videos say: DONT BE A SUCKER. Anyone selling fear, uncertainty, & doubt is to be met with skepticism. Increasingly, FUD is how Apple/Mozilla/Brave are selling their anti-feature policy. "Trust us, we won't let the web work with midi" doesn't sound that great, but is much more honest than what we get, which is "these engineers & standards groups working on these specs are secretly trying to undermine this treasured web which we must protect & keep as is at all costs". the involved engineer's histories indicates they obviously care enormously about bettering the web, & in this case are combatting sizable transpiling tool bloat for devs, & enabling offline sharing & offline capable web, and literally fighting censorship, which are truly worthy goals all that will vastly help the web.

This is all super hard to work through. Yes, google used the web to reap enormous profit by means of enormous information control & inventory systems for ads & eyeballs. But Google also would not exist without the web, & historically the web was a small toy that couldn't do much compared to apps. The tables have turned, & the web is clearly ascendant, much safer, & increasingly we understand that the limitations of ux were largely from lack of will to explore & test what limits there really were, so the situation is no longer so obviously tense. But Google Chrome & Chromium & the spec work Google does are, imo, designed to improve a communal shared resource for all humanity, designed to greaten the web, not subvert it. We can see that here, as the engineers working on webbundle have shown a thousand times over their commitment to honest above board clear integrity as they have tried & tried & tried to work with Peter Snyder as he fumbled & plodded his way to a scenario where WebBundles pose any real danger, & Peter has imo failed at presenting anything. We can see the engineers take Peter seriously, try to work with him. And so I feel it is in general. It is intimating as hell that the web is so big, has so many capabilities, that so much keeps getting added, and so much of that comes from gigantic unimaginably huge pools of capital derived from eyeballs-on-screen. But somehow it has been working out, the engineers have genuinely cared about doing the right thing, & usually the standards bodies & TAG can eventually come to harmony & agree, & the web improves.

Peters dissent thread:

https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/issues/551

Personally I greatly look forward to WebBundles. It will radically improve the JS module situation, yay, a thousand times yay, & giving people the ability to share content directly with one another, without relying on centralized infrastructure, is one of the most genuine pure & true new expanses for the web & one I am greatly looking forward to.

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#19
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could already use random URLs to serve ads and track, not sure how a bundle changes anything

Browsers like Safari are increasingly enabling privacy features that, among other techniques, block third party cookies by default. So this could be Google’s way of reacting to this change.

How do bundles "help" with third-party cookies?

Re: Google proposed Web Bundles could threaten the Web as we know it

#20
post #5

I am really curious what's the general opinion on Googler's as a web developer. I have seen a long while ago some nice articles from Google about site optimization. Do they even follow any of their original advice or Google basically keep doing over engineered stuff fixed by adding another set of over engineered staff? Let's talk gmail. I just refreshed the window and it did close to 400 request, ~8MB download which…

Not only this. Almost all there services works with bugs and slow. Youtube interface if buggy when you upload and manage your video. Constantly have to wait for 30-60 seconds to change any setting on the channel. Also constant censorship, likes/views manipulations, search results manipulations. They only want to control people minds hiding behind good intentions.
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