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Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

theanarchistlibrary.org

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Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#701

Post by pydry »

bccdee wrote: post #501
pydry wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples of anti-hierarchical societies do exist (Catalonia, Paris Commune, etc). The problem isn't so much that hierarchies just arise naturally, the problem is more that these societies aren't very long lived because they're pretty useless at defending themselves with violence. It's not totally uncommon to find an anti-hierarchical company. It is almost impossible to find an effective anti-hierarchical military.

As far as I'm aware, both of those had hierarchical leadership structures. The Paris Commune was run democratically through universal suffrage, and the CNT-FAI had its own leadership structures. Now, these societies sought to minimize hierarchy, sure, but I think it's important to recognize that an entirely non-hierarchical society is essentially impossible.

They were without coercive hierarchy. There's a fundamental difference between having a "boss" and electing your "boss".

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#703

Post by pandaman »

mindslight wrote: post #700
pandaman wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get you, anarchists have some literature that describes their views on justice, I am fine with it. For all I care they might have some fashion magazines that provide guidelines on the reasonable attire for a sensible anarchist. My question is still not answered by this and I don't see how is this related at all, to be frank. It's almost as if your answer is not quite coherent.

The reason I referenced anarchist definitions of justice is that you brought up a straw man version of justice that doesn't survive the slightest critique: > Some people think that murder for "dissing" them or being too rich/white/gay/smart/stupid/etc is just The problem with your initial "question" and subsequent replies is that they revolve around a sophomoric understanding that collapses the philosophy into meanin…

If you read this thread, I am sure, you will find that you brought justice first. Neither I brought any straw men (is it some new trend on Tweeter because I have seen several people in the past couple months using "straw man" in some strange and unknown to me sense, all I know is a discussion technique of making a different argument for one's opponent and arguing it instead of the actual one. But nothing of this sort could be applicable here since I have not made any arguments, I am just asking a question).

So, to prevent any possibility of stramaning, are you now saying that anarchism is disagreement with some laws and not the rejection of the institute of government?

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#704

Post by wildrhythms »

jlawson wrote: post #536
jchook wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That said, locking people in cages, treating them with inhumanity and violence, then releasing them into a world where they now have a harder time functioning in society and finding legitimate work doesn’t sound like a genius plan to solve psychopaths.

It's easy to criticize without suggesting any alternative.

Abolish the archaic punitive prison system. Focus solely on reform and rehabilitation. Return the right to vote to all federal prisoners. Abolish the most common driving force for violent crime: wealth inequality. Abolish the most common driving force for white collar crime: capitalism. Is that what you wanted to hear?

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#705

Post by mindslight »

pandaman wrote: post #703
mindslight wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I referenced anarchist definitions of justice is that you brought up a straw man version of justice that doesn't survive the slightest critique: > Some people think that murder for "dissing" them or being too rich/white/gay/smart/stupid/etc is just The problem with your initial "question" and subsequent replies is that they revolve around a sophomoric understanding that collapses the philosophy into meanin…

If you read this thread, I am sure, you will find that you brought justice first. Neither I brought any straw men (is it some new trend on Tweeter because I have seen several people in the past couple months using "straw man" in some strange and unknown to me sense, all I know is a discussion technique of making a different argument for one's opponent and arguing it instead of the actual one. But nothing of this sort…

Every one of your "questions" has included your own caricature of anarchism. At this point I can no longer assume good faith. If you earnestly want to know the answer to your questions, then you need to do the work of understanding.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#706

Post by stjohnswarts »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #354

> Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to. It is really a very simple notion. This can sound reasonable when you think of it in terms of, " most people behaving in a reasonable fashion, most of the time". But anarchists don't want to eliminate hierarchical use of force for most cases, but for all of them. Any time I've heard…

Anarchists that I have met are either daydreamers or deluded. It only takes 1% to ruin the whole thing for everyone. And likely they won't change, so you either have to murder them, imprison them, or let them become your leaders, otherwise your anarchic utopia won't exist for long. This is all starting to sound like how the 1% currently run the world, --sigh--

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#707

Post by natmaka »

graeme wrote: post #532
marricks wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe you've talked to any real anarchists, or at least listened to them. People like Noam Chomsky deal with that question extremely head on. Below is what I said on another comment... > Absolutely no form of government or system (anarchist 1000% included) will solve the problem of people being selfish or bad, all that anarchists contend (that I have seen) is that when there isn't those built hier…

> is that when there isn't those built hierarchies bad/selfish people don't amass power so everyone else can actually handle them on equal terms But how do you stop a bad person from amassing power in an anarchist system? As a simple example, how would you deal with highway robbers? Those were omnipresent in societies before states gained strength.

Governments replaced those robbers, you just cannot escape nor defend yourself :-)

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#708

Post by anm89 »

I consider myself an anarchist but strongly dislike this version or definition of anarchism. Anarchism is by definition a nonsensical political philosophy. How do you anarchistically implement and maintain anarchy. This obviously doesn't work.

For me anarchism is a personal philosophy. I choose to consider myself the only meaningful sovereign for myself. I acknowledge that states exist and that I might have very real consequences if I piss them off, I just don't believe they have any special moral authority and try to be the one at the end of the day that sets the rules for my life too the extent that I can.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#709

Post by natmaka »

bena wrote: post #622
b112 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot just give people stern looks. The end result is, you need to be able to use violence, against those willing to use it against you. Note, that can be a last step, but without it? Those who care not about stern looks, "talking tos", or cold shoulders will literally take everything you have, and kill everyone. So now you fall to mob rule, lynchings, and what? Power of the strong man? As soon as you organize,…

Thank you. Government is the logical conclusion of anarchy. The minute you have two people who want to do something together, you need rules.

Why can't they establish their cooperation rules between them, using existing static material (contract templates...) if they want to, without any third-party (for example a government) being mandatory?

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#710

Post by dbsmith83 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #394
d4v3 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, if Soviet Union wasn't communist, wonder why there is such a gigantic section about it here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Soviet_Union

Because they called themselves Communist? Calling yourself something doesn't make it true.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with the vast amount of documented sources on this one
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