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The Oldest Cookbook in Korean

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Re: The Oldest Cookbook in Korean

#61

Post by solidsnack9000 »

magicsmoke wrote: post #60
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The form of an argument is the opposite of semantics. If someone made an argument like "Korean has an independent origin from Chinese. You might doubt it, but what evidence do you have that it's not true? If we don't know that it's not true..." then that would be argument from ignorance, as well: notice how no supporting evidence is mustered for the hypothesis.

P1: "Korean has an independent origin from Chinese." P2: "I don't believe this is true" (because my background assumption is that things originate from China) P1: "What evidence do you have that Korean isn't independent of Chinese" P2: "None, we have no evidence from this time period." P1: "Therefore, Korean has an independent origin from Chinese." P2: "That is argument from ignorance." P1: "Here are differences betw…

Up to where P1 says, "Therefore, Korean has an independent origin from Chinese.", that is indeed argument from ignorance.

Where P1 offers some discussion of differences between Korean and Chinese, that's where we start to get into a discussion based on evidence that can be evaluated. If P2 doesn't find it convincing, then we can ask why; this allows P2 to muster evidence which can be evaluated. That's a fine and constructive direction. A finite conversation like that doesn't necessarily end with a solid conclusion and everyone being convinced of the same thing.

What you're pointing out with regards to the perceived strength or weakness of certain assumptions is not what we're talking about with argument from ignorance: argument from ignorance is about the form, not the semantics.

Re: The Oldest Cookbook in Korean

#62

Post by walrus01 »

supernova87a wrote: post #13

I think it took me a while to understand (after being told by native speakers) that Korean and Japanese are a bit of a linguistic evolutionary puzzle, especially if you thought that because their characters look like Chinese, their spoken languages are related to Chinese. They are not. The languages must have come first / evolved independent of China, and then a wave of foreign commerce / scholarly / government influ…

> So the spoken language uses Chinese based characters to record the sounds in writing, but it may not necessarily have relation to what the sounds are in Chinese if someone were to read the characters as if Chinese.

Sort of as an example, educated persons in what is now Tajikistan formerly used the arabic/persian derived script. Tajik is mututally intelligible with the Dari spoken in Kabul and is a dialect of Persian. Most of the area was historically part of the greater persian empire at one point in time.

After the Russian influence and Soviet Union grew much stronger, the education system in Tajikistan was forcibly switched to using the cyrillic alphabet to write down the sounds of spoken Tajik Persian.

Now there is a movement to revert to the Farsi writing system as is used in Afghanistan.

Re: The Oldest Cookbook in Korean

#63

Post by gerdesj »

samatman wrote: post #35
gerdesj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but this article is celebrating an ancient cookbook from Korea and not England. Not only that but: "Some historians even believe it could be the first cookbook written by a woman in all of East Asia." I am not familiar with the sexual politics/subtleties surrounding food, let alone writing about it, in East Asia. I suspect, given what I know from these parts (England), that women in East Asia had few opportu…

While what you say about opportunities may be true, The Tale of Genji was written by a Japanese woman. It's often considered the first novel.

I consider that a non-sequiter. I'm not trying to be rude but you have taken my comment, said nowt about it and then produced a The Tale of Genji which is nothing to do with food or the region we are discussing.

A cook book is on show here and not a novel.

You might like to investigate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf which is a poem written about the same time as The Tale of Genji. It isn't a novel as such. It's an epic in poetic form which is basically a long story with a lot of baggage!

Beowulf, I feel, helps to tie England to its roots and there are a lot of roots. A lot of roots, not to mention a tangled thicket above ground!

Re: The Oldest Cookbook in Korean

#64

Post by samatman »

gerdesj wrote: post #63
samatman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you say about opportunities may be true, The Tale of Genji was written by a Japanese woman. It's often considered the first novel.

I consider that a non-sequiter. I'm not trying to be rude but you have taken my comment, said nowt about it and then produced a The Tale of Genji which is nothing to do with food or the region we are discussing. A cook book is on show here and not a novel. You might like to investigate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf which is a poem written about the same time as The Tale of Genji. It isn't a novel as such. It'…

I was responding to this:

> that women in East Asia had few opportunities to express themselves in any form, let alone a book

By pointing out that another woman in East Asia expressed herself in a book, which was passed down the centuries.

I'm familiar with Beowulf; English is my native language. Talk about non-sequiturs!

Re: The Oldest Cookbook in Korean

#65

Post by papul1993 »

aaomidi wrote: post #30
papul1993 wrote: post #27

This reminds me of the Korean TV drama series Dae Jang Geum also known as Jewel in the Palace.[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dae_Jang_Geum

Have you been able to find a high quality subbed version of this anywhere?

Unfortunatey, no. :(

Re: The Oldest Cookbook in Korean

#66

Post by jinwoo68 »

xenihn wrote: post #50
jinwoo68 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that Korean political/economic system was the same as the one of Europe. It was not. Nobles didn't own all the lands or people around them. Some of non-noble people owned their own lands, others didn't and had to rent lands from landlords. So the story that you quoted means that Grandma Jang was generous to poor people who have neither lands nor money to rent lands, and allowed them to work on her lan…

How is that generosity and not exploitation?

Those who worked not just did the work but also got paid. That's what I assume. I don't really know what the truth was (nobody would know), but the intention of the story is that she provided a "job" to those poor people.
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