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Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

theanarchistlibrary.org

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Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#591

Post by Hoenoe »

schwax wrote: post #175

A question I'm asking myself is: "What would it take for anarchism to work?" (See also: "What would it take for capitalism to work for everyone?") Some ideas to consider: 1. @visakanv on assholes: > Assholes make up about 1% of most groups, cause about 75% of the damage, and ruin everybody’s experience. [1] 2. Dale Pendell on a long-term formulation of anarchism he calls "Horizon Anarchism": > I want to see the presi…

Thanks for all the nice resources and good question. I think a good place to look is also at Elinor Ostrom 8 design principles to deal with the tragedy of the common and David Sloan Wilson's multilevel selection theory [1]. They call is polycentric governance but it has a lot of related ideas. [1]: https://evonomics.com/tragedy-of-the-commons-elinor-ostrom

[1]: https://evonomics.com/tragedy-of-the-commons-elinor-ostrom/?...

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#592

Post by tomp »

sudosysgen wrote: post #190
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anacistic organisations, charities and protest movement have done a lot for the environment. In fact they are the only ones that have done anything at all. This is not true at all. Protecting the environment isn’t just about actions like planting trees and buying up the occasional extra property parcel to dedicate as a land reserve. It requires government scale regulation to impose negative consequences on people a…

The anarchist argument is distribution of power. Take the example of pollution. Say you're an employee of a fossil fuel cooperative. Is it in your interest to continue polluting? Yes, because you after all own some of the ressources of that company and control it. So what is the anarchist solution? Well, it's in the interests of everyone to stop pollution, right? So you'd need people to come together, decide that pop…

> offer you to be compensated for your investment in fossil fuels in exchange to stop polluting

Do you even think about the obvious problems with this approach? Stick works. Carrot doesn't work, it just encourages more of the same. It's in the interest of everyone to stop shitting in the streets, right? But if I get paid every time I take a shit in the street, then ...

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#593

Post by amatic »

agumonkey wrote: post #590
amscanne wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other flaw with that example is that there is obvious social pressure. If you try to cut the line, people will likely confront you. Situations where there’s no social pressure are different. During University, I was a believer in co-ops as a form of organization. I lived in and was actively involved in student housing co-ops. During grad school, I lived in a large house with 12 other people. I was the house organ…

Have you had the bliss of being frowned upon twice during covid ? by wearing a mask before others agreed, and then forgetting it (left in the car by accident kind) after society decided it was important ?

I just had the second one.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#594

Post by boomboomsubban »

cortesoft wrote: post #563
baconandeggs wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you are saying there is no way to act with foresight? No, I didn't say any of that. All I said is what is bad for society is also bad for the individual.

While this may be true, you seem to be ignoring the prisoner's dilemma part of this... yes, society (and the individuals in it) will be better off if everyone cooperates, but as an individual, it is still always better to defect. Imagine, for example, there are two companies that make widget foo. They are identical, except Company A charges less than Company B, but Company A pollutes a bunch. As a society, we want ev…

These examples all make company A and B as beings outside the community, and that wouldn't be the case. When groups exist outside of societies that are focused on gaining power over others, problems arise.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#595

Post by b112 »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #583
b112 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, like decades ago, when the Senior VP of PETA thought all animal testing was wrong, unless of course it was to help her, because who else would fight to stop animal testing? -- https://www.consumerfreedom.com/2004/08/2628-hyperbolic-hypo... PETA Senior Vice President MaryBeth Sweetland on her use of insulin, which was tested on animals: “I’m an insulin-dependent diabetic. Twice a day I take synthetically manufact…

I mean I am vegan but I wear leather boots. I absolutely do not want leather boots but I work at a farm and do need boots. I found its very hard to find vegan boots and when you search for them you find boutique high fashion not work boots. I also drive an automobile which releases CO2 that is killing animals all over the planet through climate change. I still think mass animal farming is grotesque and that we should…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatme...

You cannot oppose all animal testing, say it is morally wrong under all circumstances, then ... because you're fighting to end it, say in your special little case -- it is OK.

PETA representatives have often said that killing animals, is not worth saving one human life.

Such broken logic indicates that this person thinks that they are special. They aren't, they could die tomorrow, and some other pro-PETA person could become VP. They are, quite literally, saying it is OK for countless humans to die, due to a lack of animal testing, but that for them?

Special little them?

It's OK.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#596

Post by throwaway49872 »

b112 wrote: post #566
marricks wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, did they rob peasants or the lords of the land with their amassed stolen wealth...? A community can decide to cast someone out, reprimand them, imprison them, etc. The whole idea of restorative justice can actually exist when a community is able to address it.

What the? A "community" which makes "communal decisions" is a form of government, not anarchism! How can you cast someone out, without gates? Guards? Walls? How can you throw them out? Prevent them from returning? Do you think the robbers will just stop, because you said "Stop!". I feel like you're trolling here. I could of course be wrong, but it feels that way.

> A "community" which makes "communal decisions" is a form of government, not anarchism

This is exactly Anarchism. Please learn the basics before posting.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#597

Post by b112 »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #576
b112 wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the? A "community" which makes "communal decisions" is a form of government, not anarchism! How can you cast someone out, without gates? Guards? Walls? How can you throw them out? Prevent them from returning? Do you think the robbers will just stop, because you said "Stop!". I feel like you're trolling here. I could of course be wrong, but it feels that way.

Anarchism is a form of self-governance.

Which has nothing to do with a government.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#598

Post by b112 »

throwaway49872 wrote: post #596
b112 wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the? A "community" which makes "communal decisions" is a form of government, not anarchism! How can you cast someone out, without gates? Guards? Walls? How can you throw them out? Prevent them from returning? Do you think the robbers will just stop, because you said "Stop!". I feel like you're trolling here. I could of course be wrong, but it feels that way.

> A "community" which makes "communal decisions" is a form of government, not anarchism This is exactly Anarchism. Please learn the basics before posting.

Oh I know basics. It's gibberish, built upon mad fantasy.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#600

Post by marricks »

throwaway49872 wrote: post #596
b112 wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the? A "community" which makes "communal decisions" is a form of government, not anarchism! How can you cast someone out, without gates? Guards? Walls? How can you throw them out? Prevent them from returning? Do you think the robbers will just stop, because you said "Stop!". I feel like you're trolling here. I could of course be wrong, but it feels that way.

> A "community" which makes "communal decisions" is a form of government, not anarchism This is exactly Anarchism. Please learn the basics before posting.

They know their basic straw man attacks which I think is what is important to them :/
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