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Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

theanarchistlibrary.org

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Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#271

Post by boomboomsubban »

waihtis wrote: post #223
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #209

I have never believed in anarchism, as I don't believe that "human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to". But with COVID-19, I am seeing more proof than ever. In my country (but I guess it's the same in most, except perhaps some Nordic countries) bars, pubs and discos only reduce seating or close indoor spaces when forced to by law, in spite of the evidence that they c…

Yeah, I thought this was funny too. I literally read the same sentence and thought to myself: "ok, I am definitely not an anarchist.

So you only make reasonable choices because you are forced to?

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#272

Post by domnomnom »

mistermann wrote: post #146
domnomnom wrote: post #98

"If there’s a line to get on a crowded bus, do you wait your turn and refrain from elbowing your way past others even in the absence of police? If you answered “yes”, then you are used to acting like an anarchist!" No. This fails at scale. People are prosocial in small groups and in person but when this scales it goes away. This is a slight of hand the author is making to silently embed a false premise into the argum…

You've done the same (or it has been done to you). Can you spot it?

You’ve done the same as well!!! Can YOU spot it?

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#273

Post by baddox »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #209

I have never believed in anarchism, as I don't believe that "human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to". But with COVID-19, I am seeing more proof than ever. In my country (but I guess it's the same in most, except perhaps some Nordic countries) bars, pubs and discos only reduce seating or close indoor spaces when forced to by law, in spite of the evidence that they c…

How are the human beings in government able to behave in a reasonable fashion without being forced to?

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#274

Post by sudosysgen »

bhupy wrote: post #257
sudosysgen wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infrastructure would indeed be communally owned, and the tragedy of the commons need not apply on communally owned property. An economist actually won a Nobel Prize for demonstrating actually how that happens : "Political scientist Elinor Ostrom, who was awarded 2009's Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for her work on the issue, and others revisited Hardin's work in 1999.[45] They found the tragedy of the com…

Except infrastructure in most of the US is communally owned, and we had to institute authority and fines for littering. While it's true that there exists some societies that have been able to overcome the tragedy of the commons (it's usually extremely small homogeneous societies), I don't think we have any evidence to suggest that it can provably be replicated to the rest of the world. It's like suggesting that there…

If authority turns out to be absolutely necessary, that's okay. It just has to be limited and kept in check.

As for the tragedy of the commons being only transcended in small homogenous groups, that's stretching the definition of small and you can still have norms for larger groups without introducing tons of authority.

As for as some companies being able to WFH and others not, there are reasons that can be anaylized and propagated.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#275

Post by username90 »

chmod600 wrote: post #262

"For thousands of years people lived without governments. In many parts of the world people live outside of the control of governments today. They do not all kill each other." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage

Tribal societies have hierarchies and laws, they are not anarchies.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#277

Post by sudosysgen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #266
sudosysgen wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that still directly goes against the argument that humans are naturally hierarchical, because they aren't. And there are ways to have agriculture and industry and compounding scientific advancements without having rigid hierarchies, are there not?

> And there are ways to have agriculture and industry and compounding scientific advancements without having rigid hierarchies, are there not? Sure, the absence of rigid heirarchies with strictly top-down authority in favor of fairly fluid ones with something like circular authority where the top of heirarchy is selected and changeable by the people subject to it is a hallmark of liberal society, realized to varying…

There are still ways to run agricultural and otherwise technological societies with minimal authority if any at all.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#278

Post by erinnh »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #271
waihtis wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I thought this was funny too. I literally read the same sentence and thought to myself: "ok, I am definitely not an anarchist.

So you only make reasonable choices because you are forced to?

Some times, yes. And some times multiplied by however many people there are results in a lot of some times that people wouldn't be forced to in an anarchy.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#279

Post by Barrin92 »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #200
Nursie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. It's a lovely dream, but humans are lazy, aquisitive, and many would sell their own grandmother to gain a perceived advantage.

This behaviour is most definitely promoted by capitalism, so I wouldn't be so fast to make it a general principle. In fact, all proof shows that humans are extremely cooperative and social when the going gets tough or disaster strikes.

I think it's really telling that this disaster-anarchism argument comes up so regularly. The question isn't how society functions during a state of exception, it's how it functions on day 2 after the excitement is over when things go back to normal.

It's like all other revolutions having failed the revolution has now been outsourced to hurricanes and floods. if you want to argue that capitalism or the status quo or whatever is bad, make the case how anarchism functions on an ordinary, boring day, that is to say how it organises regular life, that is the relevant question.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#280

Post by yenwodyah »

baddox wrote: post #273
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #209

I have never believed in anarchism, as I don't believe that "human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to". But with COVID-19, I am seeing more proof than ever. In my country (but I guess it's the same in most, except perhaps some Nordic countries) bars, pubs and discos only reduce seating or close indoor spaces when forced to by law, in spite of the evidence that they c…

How are the human beings in government able to behave in a reasonable fashion without being forced to?

They are being forced to - by the threat of being voted out of office.
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