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Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

theanarchistlibrary.org

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Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#221

Post by sudosysgen »

tuesdayrain wrote: post #204
sudosysgen wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you behave when you yourself have authority? Would you stop respecting social norms and expectations if you did, and go on an egomaniacal power trip?

Currently I behave because it's in my interest to abide by laws, even those I don't agree with. If all authority disappeared overnight, I believe my best course of action would be to immediately assemble an armed militia so we could enforce a set of rules within a community that we believe are the best. I would still respect many social norms, but definitely not all of them. One thing that comes to mind is that "inno…

Right, so you agree that it's better for you to have very limited power and exist without authority, in which case you'd have to confirm to most social norms or suffer consequences, than for authority to exist and for people like you to accede to it?

Because in our system, if you were to accumulate enough authority it wouldn't be in your interest anymore to follow laws.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#222

Post by thomastjeffery »

"Are you an X?" is a fallacious concept made popular by religion.

We are all capable of understanding a variety of viewpoints, and partially agreeing with them.

The more abstract the viewpoint, the more parts are available to where with.

Anarchy is one of the most abstract ideas I'm aware of.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#223

Post by waihtis »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #209

I have never believed in anarchism, as I don't believe that "human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to". But with COVID-19, I am seeing more proof than ever. In my country (but I guess it's the same in most, except perhaps some Nordic countries) bars, pubs and discos only reduce seating or close indoor spaces when forced to by law, in spite of the evidence that they c…

Yeah, I thought this was funny too. I literally read the same sentence and thought to myself: "ok, I am definitely not an anarchist.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#224

Post by daedalus_f »

tuesdayrain wrote: post #204
sudosysgen wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you behave when you yourself have authority? Would you stop respecting social norms and expectations if you did, and go on an egomaniacal power trip?

Currently I behave because it's in my interest to abide by laws, even those I don't agree with. If all authority disappeared overnight, I believe my best course of action would be to immediately assemble an armed militia so we could enforce a set of rules within a community that we believe are the best. I would still respect many social norms, but definitely not all of them. One thing that comes to mind is that "inno…

And this is why anarchy can’t and dosen’t work. 10 minutes later it will be replaced by a new feudalism led by people trying to make themselves king to protect their own best interests.

(Edited to a more general statement.)

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#225

Post by sudosysgen »

elgfare wrote: post #220
sudosysgen wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using strong social norms and consensus. If the social norm is that hierarchy is not acceptable unless absolutely unavoidable, then a direct consequence is that the workplace must be organized cooperatively to follow that base.

I see. That's a big IF though if you ask me.

But is it? If an anarchist society was to come to existence wouldn't it be necessary beforethen for it to be largely accepted?

And also, there are currently existing societies where that dynamic works, so I'm not sure it's that unrealistic.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#226

Post by spicyramen »

In reality Anarchism fails to address the fact that people behave different, there are people that is good, respect each other, work hard, look for themselves and their families...while there are others which just don't (pedophiles, rappist, burglars, scammer, etc.). Like there are people that prefer a 9-5 job vs serial entrepreneurs. In a world with such diversity of thoughts is naive to think that humans can behave in reasonable fashion. In a world where we all behave different a set of rules and structure is needed

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#227

Post by elgfare »

vidarh wrote: post #171
elgfare wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anarchism would mandate worker ownership of production Legitimately curious: How do you mandate anything in an anarchy?

Mandate in this case is used in the abstract: in the absence of any system to recognise and enforce private property rights, and in the face of a society that sees coercion and aggression as pretty much the only things that are wholly and totally unacceptable, they cease to exist because they only exist in the first case through the state or other means of threatening force to enforce it. It would be more precise to…

Thanks. That feels like weird chain of causality. All the bad stuff only disappears when the systems protecting us from them are removed.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#228

Post by MacsHeadroom »

marcusverus wrote: post #198
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "> Just look at how we treat the planet and other living things in the presence of lawful order" On the contrary, it' and indictment of the current law system, it has utterally failed to protect the environment and other living things, where-as anacistic organisations, charities and protest movement have done a lot for the environment. In fact they are the only ones that have done anything at all. If a given CEO da…

> On the contrary, it' and indictment of the current law system, it has utterally failed to protect the environment and other living things. The fact that our laws have tried to protect the environment and 'utterly failed' is clear evidence that behaviour of individuals and corporations are not, by default, making good environmental decisions. The idea that these actors, who are bad stewards of the environment when l…

Counterpoint: The legal concept of fiduciary responsibility, and actual de facto laws, legally compel the board of directors and executives of for-profit corporations to produce profit for their shareholders.

There are even special laws for officers of publicly traded companies that make this compulsion even more strict add additional criminal charges for failure.

Now, obviously these laws aren't something most corporate officers think about when they get out of bed. But they absolutely do create powerful incentives and drive the culture of large corporations away from any consideration for ethics.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#229

Post by nebulous1 »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #29

I don't often read anything from anarchists. Whenever I do, it always comes off as sophomoric. Pretentious sophistry. When you boil down his questions, they're not serious questions about anarchy, they're lame excuses for him to keep talking. - Do you wait for your turn on a crowded bus? - Are you a member of a sports team or small group without a leader? - Do you think politicians suck, and people are selfish? - Do…

I have issues with this article and with anarchism, and I agree that some of this is sophomoric (not sure about sophistry though).

However, this article isn't really for you (or me). There are surprisingly many people who think that "anarchists" simply want to see the world burn and are promoting a society where their children are as likely to be murdered while out playing as not. This article is just saying that that's not the case.

It's obviously too hand-wavy to take us beyond that.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#230

Post by ctrlp »

cryptofistMonk wrote: post #188

"How many hours would we really need to work in order to maintain a functional society — that is, if we got rid of all the useless or destructive occupations like telemarketers, lawyers, prison guards, financial analysts, public relations experts, bureaucrats and politicians, and turn our best scientific minds away from working on space weaponry or stock market systems to mechanizing away dangerous or annoying tasks…

Read Michael Albert's Parecon for an anarchist answer to these questions. One of many of which Lenin would be proud.
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