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Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

theanarchistlibrary.org

41–50 of 839 posts

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#41
It’s important to point out here that anarchists are not advocating for lack of organization; people are social animals and must work together to live. They are advocating for lack of power structures of domination and subordination.

Imagine there are two kingdoms on some continent. One is managed by some kind of democratic council, and resources are shared equitably; the other is ruled by a tyrant. Which one is more likely to make war on its neighbors? The tyrant, obviously- because the tyrant has something to gain by conquest (more subjects, wealth, and power) and the democratic society does not (assuming that the society stays democratic after the conquest, they now have to contend with the voices of a lot of angry new citizens). The same applies to any organization: an organization is aggressive and violent in direct proportion to how hierarchical it is.

There is a tragic principle of natural selection that plays out, however, if you imagine that continent and imagine a random arrangement of democracies and kingdoms, over time the kingdoms will make war and expand and the democracies will not. After a few hundred years, most of the citizens of the continent will be living under tyrants. And tyranny has to justify itself to its subjects, through religion or ideology; the subjects will be made to feel that obedience is virtue and that the king is a father figure and so forth. But popular freedom movements will constantly be popping up and have to be suppressed.

I give you: the modern world.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#42

Yes, apparently he died last week. The person said to be behind the phrase we are the 99% at the Occupy Wall Street movement. He was an interesting character. My question would be: do anarchists really work as professors at the London School of Economics? And Yale? Aren't you a 'system man' at that point?

Anarchists are not an alien species, nor is there an anarchistan yet. They live among us

Well, I suspect that David Graeber, who quietly self-proclaimed himself as one of the leaders of Occupy Wall Street, was one of those people designed to make 'anarchistan' a distant reality. He would take the energy invested in him and then faceplant before the finish line. By say, proposing that the left wing should be voted for.

He was in support of Corbyn etc - this is to say he was happy to work within the system. You might say that this is a pragmatic view - but really he represented a hard left view.

Anarchism is, by definition, no-leaders. Self-determination. Neither communism nor a libertarian position. So I think in practise he was in contradiction of the beliefs he purported to hold.

BS jobs was good though!

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#43
Anyone who has ever lived in a share house (or next to one) knows that without laws civilization will descend into absolute chaos and endless tit for tat revenge warfare.

Try parenting with anarchist principles.

At some point you run into limits. The point is, what imposes those limits? Physics, gravity, society or yourself?

Ideally the limits you put on yourself should mean you never encounter (negatively or destructively) any of the other systems of limits. But, not all people are capable of always limiting or controlling themselves, and no...that's not the fault of their being "arbitrary restrictions" or "ludicrous laws" and it's not a "reaction against meaningless oppressive authority", it's just people are not perfect and not always good at acting in a way that doesn't put them up against the other sources of limits.

Even if someone has perfect self-control. Who says they have perfect knowledge of the limits, which if they were to cross them would bring about their destruction or detriment, in any given situation?

You should be the source of truth and guide for your life, but I don't think you can expect to know everything and avoid all risks if you only pay attention to what you think is OK and ignore signals from elsewhere. I think you need to balance it with acknowledging that other people and society has some fucking clue about that stuff as well. It's not perfect either, but you shouldn't not factor it into your decisions.

If anarchists were so clever at charting their own courses, how come they end up getting arrested for stupid shit? I suppose they're "not true anarchists".

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#44

“Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to.” My anarchist sympathies want this to be true but this is a demonstrably false fairy tale. Just look at how we treat the planet and other living things in the presence of lawful order. Why would you assume that we would act righteously in the absence of law? It is painfully obvious th…

> Just look at how we treat the planet and other living things in the presence of lawful order.

Law isn't a basis for morality, and there's a lot to be said for how present (capitalist, consumerist) systems promote un-sustainability, despite many on an individual level rejecting those systems.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#45
post #22

“Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to.” My anarchist sympathies want this to be true but this is a demonstrably false fairy tale. Just look at how we treat the planet and other living things in the presence of lawful order. Why would you assume that we would act righteously in the absence of law? It is painfully obvious th…

Exactly this. It's a lovely dream, but humans are lazy, aquisitive, and many would sell their own grandmother to gain a perceived advantage.

Nobody aside from hardened sociopaths would do that.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#46
Is it just me, or does this text seems to pretend as if anarcho-communists are the only kind of anarchists and anarcho-capitalist don't exist? It doesn't seem to talk a lot about property rights, but some phrases about "the way society is organized right now" and "useless professions" are not what all anarchists believe.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#47
post #24

The early descriptions reminded me of libertarianism. did anyone else feel that? “Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing individualism, freedom of choice and voluntary association.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Yes, libertarianism is quite close to anarchy or minarchy. It looks like such sentiments are very strong in places where goverment has failed their people for dozens of years, in comparison of Europe for example.

With the exception of anarchism being anti-capitalist.

Any ‘anarchist’ that is pro-capitalism is generally not regarded as anarchist by the wider anarchist movement.

Fun fact: befor the modern US meaning, libertarian used to mean anarchist-communist as a way around french authorities banning the word anarchist in the late 1800 if I remember correctly.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#49
post #22

“Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to.” My anarchist sympathies want this to be true but this is a demonstrably false fairy tale. Just look at how we treat the planet and other living things in the presence of lawful order. Why would you assume that we would act righteously in the absence of law? It is painfully obvious th…

Exactly this. It's a lovely dream, but humans are lazy, aquisitive, and many would sell their own grandmother to gain a perceived advantage.

I don't even think many would, the problem is that it only takes a few. The damage that a dedicated antisocial hyperminority can do to a society that lacks rules and enforcement of said is significant... Even more so in an age where technology acts as a force multiplier.

Re: Are you an anarchist? The answer may surprise you (2000)

#50
If what this article says is true, then anarchism will fail for the same reason libertarianism fails. They’re both exercises in ideal realities. They’re experiments with frictionless ramps, and ideal pulleys, and objects falling in a vacuum.

Both in physics and in society, the world is more complicated than “government is unnecessary” or “don’t tread on me”.

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